@Leonardo17

Quote:-This is an important point. But you can look at it this way:
 
I would not want to be in your car if you are driving after drinking to bottle of scotch or if you have had pills / magic mushrooms of anything like that. But would you be afraid of being in my car if I have meditated for 20 minutes before driving the car?
 
/ So there are some useful stuff there.

I don’t drink or take drugs. But if I did, yes - you should be terrified of getting in a car with me. As for the other, I don’t know how meditation affects you but (again) yes, I would probably be unconcerned about meditation affecting your driving.

I never said meditation can’t be useful. I took issue with your repeated claim that non-spiritual people can’t know anything worth knowing.

Boru

As great as knowledge can be, the wisest thing to accept is that there are some things not worth knowing.

(June 11, 2026 at 12:42 pm)Paraselene Wrote: As great as knowledge can be, the wisest thing to accept is that there are some things not worth knowing.

Of course there are, but that varies from person to person. For instance, I find that my daily horoscope is not worth knowing.

Boru

(June 11, 2026 at 11:50 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: That’s a very serious possibility yes. But if I was convinced of that myself I would simply renounce to spirituality altogether and become an atheist like you guys. 

Judging by your comments about gods...you already are, my man.  We contain multitudes.  When you say that you don't believe that there's some divine person pulling strings in the background you're saying exactly what every single person here is saying when they say "I'm an atheist".  The rest of it is a tossup.  Very Online Atheists are extremely skeptical relative to atheism in general.  It's a product of our belief states (in this and so many other things) being challenged on a regular basis by both theists and other atheists.  That produces a community focused on analytics, hard science, formal logical explication.  However....most people who don't believe in gods do believe in many of the items those three things are very commonly set against.  The supernatural, the paranormal, various mind over matter schemes - the superstitious by any name.  Most atheists (again speaking for no one but myself.... here, we're a weird bunch) believe in something that maps to spirituality in their contexts, too.  

Renouncing spirituality doesn't actually make a person an atheist - consider all of the god believers with a dead faith life.  They strongly believe in gods but not spiritual things™.  In fact, in the us, that is THE context of conservative evangelical belief.  The baptist church explicitly and strictly rejects spiritualism™ as a matter of constitutional organization.  Also women talking to men like they know anything...in the next few days.  They strongly believe in gods but -also- believe that every "spiritual" whatsit is a crock of shit concocted by satan to tempt people away from the truth.  Being strongly predisposed towards some spirituality is, likewise, not an indication that a person is not an atheist.  I don't know if you've caught my many posts advocating for (and explaining all other religion by way of) a religion of nature.  Or the many interactions in which my fellow very online atheists note that the things I say and indicate a ceratin and unshakeable belief in can often (or even always, lol) come across as highly spurious and extremely familiar nonsense. That I talk about morality...just as one example...about is's and oughts and betterment in a way that, to them, sounds as though I'm taking notes from a pulpit somewhere.

Tyng it all up with a bow for you...and I've suggested this many times since you joined us...... alot of what you think you're arguing for (or against) with us..here..is actually a product of the theistic conditioning and framing you were brought up in. There are things you think are "atheist" that are not...and things that you think "atheists" don't or can't be which atheism does do, and we are. Gun to my head, if someone asked me to breifly explain you as you've communicated yourself to us here...I'd call you a progressive but superstitious atheist...and I don't mean that as a dig, just a description. I could probably sell you some crystals and a book on guided meditation, but I couldn't sell you on divinely sanctioned hate. You don't think there's a divine person to have hates to sanction in first goddamned place.....and that's a good thing.

(June 11, 2026 at 12:42 pm)Paraselene Wrote: As great as knowledge can be, the wisest thing to accept is that there are some things not worth knowing.

Even wiser is knowing that one knows nothing. Dude who supposedly said this is a symbol of wisdom to this day.