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RE: Natural Selection Seems Insufficient
Yesterday at 6:41 pm
(Yesterday at 6:35 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Why, why does it entail that, and how does panpsychism explain it?
We are going around in circles. Let me ask you, why is matter tangible, that is, susceptible to collisions. How did matter acquire that property?
It's innate, right? It's not something acquired. I mean, that's not likely, right? In the same way, it's not likely that self-awareness is an acquired property. I can therefore say with an extremely high level of certainty that is an innate property.
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RE: Natural Selection Seems Insufficient
Yesterday at 6:43 pm
(Yesterday at 6:39 pm)Ravenshire Wrote: (Yesterday at 6:35 pm)Jal Wrote: I am not asking you to accept those grounds. I am not asking you to believe in God. I am challenging you to impugn the internal logical consistency of my theodicy.
You really don't understand how this stuff works. You're the one coming here with a claim. It's on you to show the veracity of the claim. It is not on anyone here to prove it wrong. It's called the burden of proof and it's the onus of making a positive claim.
That's true to the extent I make sheer assertions. When I make an actual argument,which I have done, it merits a counterargument, something more than just insults.
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RE: Natural Selection Seems Insufficient
Yesterday at 6:43 pm
It's a pretty weird claim, too. Why would it have to be true that consciousness was a fundamental force/unit for it to be true that natural selection explains hunger response?
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RE: Natural Selection Seems Insufficient
Yesterday at 6:48 pm
(Yesterday at 6:43 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It's a pretty weird claim, too. Why would it have to be true that consciousness was a fundamental force/unit for it to be true that natural selection explains hunger response?
Why will a mammal lunge toward food, shelter, clothing and safety?
Again, in a domino determinism, you can't very well say, "The mammal volitoinally, as a free agent, altered its original trajectory, it decided to change direction, it suddenly reversed direction, and thus caused itself to head toward the food, shelter, or clothing."
Whereas in a panpyshism animated by free will defeined as a self-moving material force, you can easily make that claim.
I think I've made this argument clear enough, even from the OP.
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RE: Natural Selection Seems Insufficient
Yesterday at 6:52 pm
(This post was last modified: Yesterday at 6:53 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
That's where the trouble arises, I keep imploring you to consider whether it only seems clear to you. Natural selection explains hunger as a homeostatic strategy with a larger range of survival benefits than simple cellular triggers. That seems clear to me.
Now why would panpsychism have to be true for that to be true?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Natural Selection Seems Insufficient
Yesterday at 6:55 pm
(This post was last modified: Yesterday at 6:55 pm by Jal.)
(Yesterday at 6:52 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: That's where the trouble arises, I keep imploring you to consider whether it only seems clear to you. Natural selection explains hunger as a homeostatic strategy with a larger range of survival benefits than simple cellular triggers. That seems clear to me.
The question of "Explaining" hunger is not my primary emphasis. The major thrust of my argument is that hunger is irrelevant/ useless for survival if we are inexorably locked into domino-like behavior that cannot freely opt to shift direction toward food when we feel hungry. If we have no free control over our trajectory, we will starve.
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RE: Natural Selection Seems Insufficient
Yesterday at 6:55 pm
(Yesterday at 6:37 pm)Jal Wrote: (Yesterday at 6:35 pm)Ravenshire Wrote: Seriously?!? I really don't give that much of a shit about you or your silly ideas. Sometimes I just get bored.
You're persistent, I'll give you that, but you suck at reading others, and at reading for comprehension.
You haven't demonstrated anything silly about my beliefs. Do you even know the fundamentals of Chritian epistemology?
I honestly find it hard to believe that somone who knows those fundamentals can consider them internally unreasonable or inconsistent.
Actually, I didn't mention you're beliefs at all. As I said about reading for comprehension...
You're argument from incredulity not withstanding, there are billions of people who find other (or no) religions more compelling than yours. I'm guessing, though I won't speak for them, that they see plenty of unreasonableness or inconsistency in those fundamentals.
As far as the fundamentals of the christer cult, I was raised in a christer home and taught christer ideology. I've read the buy-bull, more than once. I found none of it compelling. Much like your silly ideas. (<---- pay attention to that bit, you know, for the comprehension).
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RE: Natural Selection Seems Insufficient
Yesterday at 6:59 pm
(Yesterday at 6:55 pm)Ravenshire Wrote: (Yesterday at 6:37 pm)Jal Wrote: You haven't demonstrated anything silly about my beliefs. Do you even know the fundamentals of Chritian epistemology?
I honestly find it hard to believe that somone who knows those fundamentals can consider them internally unreasonable or inconsistent.
Actually, I didn't mention you're beliefs at all. As I said about reading for comprehension...
You're argument from incredulity not withstanding, there are billions of people who find other (or no) religions more compelling than yours. I'm guessing, though I won't speak for them, that they see plenty of unreasonableness or inconsistency in those fundamentals.
As far as the fundamentals of the christer cult, I was raised in a christer home and taught christer ideology. I've read the buy-bull, more than once. I found none of it compelling. Much like your silly ideas. (<---- pay attention to that bit, you know, for the comprehension).
Again, I did not ask anyone here to accept Christianity. What I HAVE done is:
(1) Argued for the insufficiency of reductionistic Natural Selection to explain the present order.
(2) In passing, I have mentioned my Christian beliefs and challenged observers to identify anything unreasonable there. I haven't seen anyone on this thread convincingly rise to that challenge.
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RE: Natural Selection Seems Insufficient
Yesterday at 7:01 pm
(Yesterday at 6:43 pm)Jal Wrote: (Yesterday at 6:39 pm)Ravenshire Wrote: You really don't understand how this stuff works. You're the one coming here with a claim. It's on you to show the veracity of the claim. It is not on anyone here to prove it wrong. It's called the burden of proof and it's the onus of making a positive claim.
That's true to the extent I make sheer assertions. When I make an actual argument,which I have done, it merits a counterargument, something more than just insults.
No, you're "arguments" (for want of a better term) do not de-facto deserve debunking since your obvious ignorance of the sciences make them self-refuting, leaving the two of us with nothing more than pointing and laughing with only yourself as the target.
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RE: Natural Selection Seems Insufficient
Yesterday at 7:02 pm
(Yesterday at 7:01 pm)Ravenshire Wrote: (Yesterday at 6:43 pm)Jal Wrote: That's true to the extent I make sheer assertions. When I make an actual argument,which I have done, it merits a counterargument, something more than just insults.
No, you're "arguments" (for want of a better term) do not de-facto deserve debunking since your obvious ignorance of the sciences make them self-refuting, leaving the two of us with nothing more than pointing and laughing with only yourself as the target.
Yeah more insults. Anyone watching: I hope you are not fooled by this facade?
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