The toxic negative aspects of Christianity rarely talked about, even by atheists:

1. You cannot do life on your own strength

2. You do not own yourself or your own body, you are property of god

It is beyond me, how a system that teaches this, is seen as "good" by so many people.

(September 9, 2026 at 4:27 am)Twiggy Wrote: The toxic negative aspects of Christianity rarely talked about, even by atheists:

1. You cannot do life on your own strength

2. You do not own yourself or your own body, you are property of god

It is beyond me, how a system that teaches this, is seen as "good" by so many people.

I find that those two aspects are talked about quite a lot by atheists.

Boru

(September 9, 2026 at 4:30 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(September 9, 2026 at 4:27 am)Twiggy Wrote: The toxic negative aspects of Christianity rarely talked about, even by atheists:

1. You cannot do life on your own strength

2. You do not own yourself or your own body, you are property of god

It is beyond me, how a system that teaches this, is seen as "good" by so many people.

I find that those two aspects are talked about quite a lot by atheists.

Boru

Interesting, I mainly just see the same few things being repeatedly talked about, LGBT issues, women, abortion, church/state separation, judgmental attitudes, etc.

Rarely do I see insightful criticisms of core concepts of christian teaching, such as those.

(September 9, 2026 at 4:39 am)Twiggy Wrote:

(September 9, 2026 at 4:30 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I find that those two aspects are talked about quite a lot by atheists.

Boru

Interesting, I mainly just see the same few things being repeatedly talked about, LGBT issues, women, abortion, church/state separation, judgmental attitudes, etc.

Rarely do I see insightful criticisms of core concepts of christian teaching, such as those.

Of the five you listed, three (LGBTQ+ issues, women, and abortion) are the direct consequence of relying on God and being the personal property of God.

Boru

Yes, as I've said elsewhere, it angers me very much how parasite-like in nature Christianity is, in that it parasitically redirects praise, both received and given, away from the people involved, and only onto 'God'... eg giving praise only to God for what people do, ie thanking only God for saving someone's life, when it was doctors, science, and medicine that did OR on the flip side of the same coin, never taking praise for their (Christian's) own achievements, in what must be a very self-esteem lowering way, by thanking only God for everything they achieve, in a state of willing or learned helplessness. I know some Christians who regularly do both flip sides of this coin, and I feel very sorry for them, and wish they could free themselves from this parasite-like delusion, that only God is responsible for everything, including everyone else's and their own actions and decisions... which in itself makes no sense in a world where God is supposed/claimed to have given free will to everybody, and therefore cannot be held responsible for their decisions and actions, but that's a separate issue. My main anger is with the first issue.

(September 9, 2026 at 7:17 am)emjay Wrote: Yes, as I've said elsewhere, it angers me very much how parasite-like in nature Christianity is, in that it parasitically redirects praise, both received and given, away from the people involved, and only onto 'God'... eg giving praise only to God for what people do, ie thanking only God for saving someone's life, when it was doctors, science, and medicine that did OR on the flip side of the same coin, never taking praise for their (Christian's) own achievements, in what must be a very self-esteem lowering way, by thanking only God for everything they achieve, in a state of willing or learned helplessness. I know some Christians who regularly do both flip sides of this coin, and I feel very sorry for them, and wish they could free themselves from this parasite-like delusion, that only God is responsible for everything, including everyone else's and their own actions and decisions... which in itself makes no sense in a world where God is supposed/claimed to have given free will to everybody, and therefore cannot be held responsible for their decisions and actions, but that's a separate issue. My main anger is with the first issue.

Your ‘separate issue’ is inextricably tied up with the first one - your will is free except when it isn’t.

NOT a criticism, btw, just an observation.

Boru

One of the points which has always confused me is why they view humans and God as morally unequal, that God's subjective view counts for more than mine.

(September 9, 2026 at 7:46 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(September 9, 2026 at 7:17 am)emjay Wrote: Yes, as I've said elsewhere, it angers me very much how parasite-like in nature Christianity is, in that it parasitically redirects praise, both received and given, away from the people involved, and only onto 'God'... eg giving praise only to God for what people do, ie thanking only God for saving someone's life, when it was doctors, science, and medicine that did OR on the flip side of the same coin, never taking praise for their (Christian's) own achievements, in what must be a very self-esteem lowering way, by thanking only God for everything they achieve, in a state of willing or learned helplessness. I know some Christians who regularly do both flip sides of this coin, and I feel very sorry for them, and wish they could free themselves from this parasite-like delusion, that only God is responsible for everything, including everyone else's and their own actions and decisions... which in itself makes no sense in a world where God is supposed/claimed to have given free will to everybody, and therefore cannot be held responsible for their decisions and actions, but that's a separate issue. My main anger is with the first issue.

Your ‘separate issue’ is inextricably tied up with the first one - you will is free except when it isn’t.

NOT a criticism, btw, just an observation.

Boru

I do agree with you, but nonetheless there is still a distinction for me in terms of which causes the most anger in me, because the first 'issue' is very clearly observable in real life actions all the time, whereas the second is more abstract... I mean any rationalisations given for it, if they are at all... which isn't often (ie no one has given me a clear justification for it yet) ... are all a load of bollocks but nonetheless that doesn't anger me as much, or frustrate me as much, as seeing in real life terms, the practical effect of it all... the first 'issue'. Another example of that first issue, is when Christians are afraid if there's no doctor or hospital or medicine around etc... there are very few Christians who actually seem to trust their own god to be able to save them without all of that... without doctors, medicine, or hospitals etc. So that example again giving god all the credit for what is achieved by man.

(September 9, 2026 at 4:27 am)Twiggy Wrote: The toxic negative aspects of Christianity rarely talked about, even by atheists:

1. You cannot do life on your own strength

2. You do not own yourself or your own body, you are property of god

It is beyond me, how a system that teaches this, is seen as "good" by so many people.

You’ve listed two Christian teachings, but you haven’t actually shown why either one is toxic.

Let’s start with #1: why is “you cannot do life entirely on your own strength” inherently harmful?

Make the argument. What exactly makes dependence on God toxic?

(September 9, 2026 at 7:17 am)emjay Wrote: Yes, as I've said elsewhere, it angers me very much how parasite-like in nature Christianity is, in that it parasitically redirects praise, both received and given, away from the people involved, and only onto 'God'... eg giving praise only to God for what people do, ie thanking only God for saving someone's life, when it was doctors, science, and medicine that did OR on the flip side of the same coin, never taking praise for their (Christian's) own achievements, in what must be a very self-esteem lowering way, by thanking only God for everything they achieve, in a state of willing or learned helplessness. I know some Christians who regularly do both flip sides of this coin, and I feel very sorry for them, and wish they could free themselves from this parasite-like delusion, that only God is responsible for everything, including everyone else's and their own actions and decisions... which in itself makes no sense in a world where God is supposed/claimed to have given free will to everybody, and therefore cannot be held responsible for their decisions and actions, but that's a separate issue. My main anger is with the first issue.

I'll give you part of your argument: if a Christian thanks only God after doctors have worked to save someone's life, while giving those doctors no recognition for their skill, effort and decisions, I can understand your criticism.
But you've made a much bigger claim than that. You've gone from “I know Christians who behave this way” to claiming Christianity itself takes praise away from humans and redirects it to God.
And your doctor example cuts both ways.
Doctors deserve credit when their skill and decisions contribute to saving someone's life. But doctors also make mistakes. Operations go wrong. Treatments fail. Patients sometimes survive despite medical errors or terrible odds, just as patients sometimes die despite doctors doing everything correctly.
So simply saying, “It was the doctors, science and medicine that saved them” can be just as simplistic as the position you're criticizing.
As a Christian, if someone survives despite an operation going badly, I can thank God for their survival without pretending the doctors did nothing. Likewise, when an operation goes perfectly, I can praise the surgeon's skill while still thanking God.
Your argument therefore depends on something you haven't established: that giving God credit necessarily takes deserved credit away from human beings.
Why must it be one or the other?
Before jumping to “parasites,” damaged self-esteem and learned helplessness, establish the foundation first:
Why can't human effort receive its proper credit while God also receives thanks?