Quote:"Oh god! oooh god! oh, oh, god!!" ?

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That is when your prayers have been answered, amigo!

(February 4, 2012 at 10:02 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:"Oh god! oooh god! oh, oh, god!!" ?

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That is when your prayers have been answered, amigo!

Oh, god, I really need to remember to swallow before reading your posts. I just spit my tea out.

Ah....one of these.

(February 4, 2012 at 11:54 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Ah....one of these.

Sorry, I didn't have time to search for the correct smiley face animation. I was cleaning my screen.

(February 4, 2012 at 7:57 pm)brotherlylove Wrote: It's probably natural for you to feel this way since you now believe you live in a reality that is completely indifferent to your struggles, and is slowly grinding everything into oblivion. It's at bottom a kind of nihilism which I think is very psychologically unhealthy.

Excuse me? We've already established that the poster of this thread has found that prayer does not work. He was a believer, and through the lack of effect his prayers had, he has determined that they do not work. So when you start talking about a reality that's indifferent to his struggles, the first place we should be pointing the finger is your fucking God. Use your brain, if you have one.

Your second comment I assume was made solely to provoke. Explain to me how atheism is nihilism. When you're done trying, me and my comrades here will tear you a new arsehole.

(February 5, 2012 at 6:03 am)ElDinero Wrote:

(February 4, 2012 at 7:57 pm)brotherlylove Wrote: It's probably natural for you to feel this way since you now believe you live in a reality that is completely indifferent to your struggles, and is slowly grinding everything into oblivion. It's at bottom a kind of nihilism which I think is very psychologically unhealthy.

Excuse me? We've already established that the poster of this thread has found that prayer does not work. He was a believer, and through the lack of effect his prayers had, he has determined that they do not work. So when you start talking about a reality that's indifferent to his struggles, the first place we should be pointing the finger is your fucking God. Use your brain, if you have one.

Your second comment I assume was made solely to provoke. Explain to me how atheism is nihilism. When you're done trying, me and my comrades here will tear you a new arsehole.

Hey El Dinero Nice to meet you. I was commenting from my perspective. Knowing the love of God, and knowing how much it meant to passionatefool, it breaks my heart to see him suffering, that he thinks God doesnt love him, or that He isnt even real. I don't know what happened in his life, but if he read the parable of the prodigal son, he would see the way God feels about him. God doesnt answer every prayer; we are to pray for what is in His will to do, not necessarily what we might want, because we don't know what we need. He does, and sometimes we go through a time of trials, even near to the point of death, that prove our faith, testing it by fire.

On my contention about the nihilism inherent of believing we live in an indifferent Universe that mercilessly grinds everything into powder, you could start I suppose by differentiating your position from this comment by Richard Dawkins:

"In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference."

Ignorant bloody theists...

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Can't even read!!

(February 5, 2012 at 6:22 am)brotherlylove Wrote: Hey El Dinero Nice to meet you. I was commenting from my perspective. Knowing the love of God, and knowing how much it meant to passionatefool, it breaks my heart to see him suffering, that he thinks God doesnt love him, or that He isnt even real. I don't know what happened in his life, but if he read the parable of the prodigal son, he would see the way God feels about him. God doesnt answer every prayer; we are to pray for what is in His will to do, not necessarily what we might want, because we don't know what we need. He does, and sometimes we go through a time of trials, even near to the point of death, that prove our faith, testing it by fire.

If you can only pray for stuff that's already part of God's will, what's the point in praying for it? This in no way contradicts my assertion that your God is indifferent. He does what he wants to do, and you praying for it is incidental. It's also a very convenient get out clause: 'Oh he doesn't answer ALL prayers, silly, but I know he definitely answers some, because some of the time I pray for things, they happen' - utter garbage. Do you think that people who pray get more things they want than people that don't? Because I quite often get the things I want, without prayer. So either prayer doesn't work, or God is happy enough to provide for me to the same degree as he provides for you, despite my lack of belief. Either way, the efficacy of prayer is shown to be nil.

Quote:On my contention about the nihilism inherent of believing we live in an indifferent Universe that mercilessly grinds everything into powder, you could start I suppose by differentiating your position from this comment by Richard Dawkins:

"In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference."

I wouldn't differentiate my position whatsoever from that statement. Now show how this is nihilism.

(February 5, 2012 at 6:39 am)ElDinero Wrote: If you can only pray for stuff that's already part of God's will, what's the point in praying for it? This in no way contradicts my assertion that your God is indifferent. He does what he wants to do, and you praying for it is incidental. It's also a very convenient get out clause: 'Oh he doesn't answer ALL prayers, silly, but I know he definitely answers some, because some of the time I pray for things, they happen' - utter garbage. Do you think that people who pray get more things they want than people that don't? Because I quite often get the things I want, without prayer. So either prayer doesn't work, or God is happy enough to provide for me to the same degree as he provides for you, despite my lack of belief. Either way, the efficacy of prayer is shown to be nil.

This is a major misconception by atheists and Christians alike that the function of prayer is to ask for things, like material goods, financial blessings, etc. Jesus gave us very clear instructions about prayer:

Matthew 6:25-34

Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?

And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Jesus instructs us not to ask for material things because the Father already knows what we need before we ask for it. That our lives do not consist of pursuing these things. We are instructed to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and then all of these things will be added to you. The function of prayer is not to ask for things, it is to be in communion with God. As passionatefool briefly described, He received great comfort from speaking with God. When I pray I don't ask for things..what I do is trust God to provide what I need, and that has never failed. I don't need to ask Him for anything. When I pray I mostly ask God to do things for other people. Some of the things I ask for are healing for those who are sick, comfort for those who are struggling, and things of this nature. Specific requests for specific situations.

Your prayers are much more apt to be answered if you are praying as Jesus taught us to do. How God provides for you is going to seem as approximating your ideas about personal autonomy, according to the lens of your worldview. It's hard to find a rhythm if you can't feel the beat.

(February 5, 2012 at 6:39 am)ElDinero Wrote: I wouldn't differentiate my position whatsoever from that statement. Now show how this is nihilism.

If the Universe has no purpose, it has no inherent meaning. Everyone is simply dancing to their DNA. If there is no good and evil, nothing is really wrong, which means the holocaust would be good if everyone agreed it was. No chance of fairness, no justice..murders go free and righteous people die for no reason. How is this not nihilism?:

Definition of NIHILISM

1a : a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless b : a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths

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(February 5, 2012 at 6:28 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Ignorant bloody theists...

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Can't even read!!

Maybe this will be more entertaining

(February 5, 2012 at 7:15 am)brotherlylove Wrote: This is a major misconception by atheists and Christians alike that the function of prayer is to ask for things, like material goods, financial blessings, etc. Jesus gave us very clear instructions about prayer:
When I pray I mostly ask God to do things for other people. Some of the things I ask for are healing for those who are sick, comfort for those who are struggling, and things of this nature. Specific requests for specific situations.

I don't think I said 'material goods', I said 'things you want'. If that extends to other people being healed, or comfort for those who are struggling, then so be it. My question stands: Do you think you get the things you pray for to any greater degree than I get the things that I HOPE for? Yes or no? If yes, prove it, and that there is a causal relationship between your prayers and the things that happen. If no, the efficacy of prayer is what?

Quote:If the Universe has no purpose, it has no inherent meaning. Everyone is simply dancing to their DNA. If there is no good and evil, nothing is really wrong, which means the holocaust would be good if everyone agreed it was. No chance of fairness, no justice..murders go free and righteous people die for no reason.

I should have known you'd be the sort of braindead idiot to trot out this tired argument. Your talk of justice is pathetically useless when in YOUR philosophy, a mass murderer could go to Heaven. For all your bleating about holocausts and justice, is it not true that ANY person could sincerely repent and be saved by Jesus, and be accepted into the kingdom of Heaven? Explain how this is fair and just.