(April 10, 2012 at 4:13 am)Kratos Wrote:

(April 10, 2012 at 3:48 am)tobie Wrote:

(April 10, 2012 at 3:45 am)Kratos Wrote:

(April 10, 2012 at 2:45 am)tobie Wrote: Kratos, what you fail to understand is that without society, there would be no religion, or even science. Society exists, it is an irrefutable fact, you just have to look at the definition:

An organized group of persons associated together for religious, benevolent, cultural, scientific, political, patriotic, or other purposes.

Yes there are societies but not society.
A nation or nations can not be defined as a "society".
A society has to have a name as the organised group lets say "The society of clay pot worshippers".

Again, look at the definition. I think it would be safe to say a nation counts as a group of people associated together for political and cultural, and often religious reasons.

You have drawn a very long bow there. Can you really say a nation is an organised group of people that are all associates of each other? I think a nation would be better defined as a designated portion of land held together with an army a corrupt government and a police state. A big prison comes to mind where you need to have a passport to get out and visas to get past the screws of another big prison.

Yes, I really can say that, and in fact, I did.

It's a huge assumption to assume that every nation has a corrupt government and is a police state.

(April 9, 2012 at 9:17 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

Kratos Wrote:The irony is that religions out there with different tenets to the mass consumed secularist "mainstream" can shatter these brainwashing elements and help people to think for themselves.

I am dying to hear examples of this considering most of the major religions don't teach how to think, they tell you what to think.

Ok here is a scenario a child goes to a state school the fascist teacher there teaches in a biased and indoctrinating way. The child then comes across a Christian that starts preaching as they do, info counter to the facsist, ok the child becomes confused then meets a Muslim who says the Christian and the facsist have got it all wrong and Islam is perfect, as they do. The child becomes totally confused with all this and realizes he has to think for himself.

So telling people about mythology which contradicts scientific facts, confuses them enough to think for themselves.

Didn't it hurt to pull that out of your ass?

Quote:Didn't it hurt to pull that out of your ass?

And did smoke pour out your ears when you did?

(April 8, 2012 at 7:47 pm)Kratos Wrote: when the USA was devoutly Christian there was far less crime.

When europe was devoutly christian there was far more murder.
The dark ages were dark for a reason.

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(April 10, 2012 at 4:33 am)Kratos Wrote: Ok here is a scenario a child goes to a state school the fascist teacher there teaches in a biased and indoctrinating way. The child then comes across a Christian that starts preaching as they do, info counter to the facsist, ok the child becomes confused then meets a Muslim who says the Christian and the facsist have got it all wrong and Islam is perfect, as they do. The child becomes totally confused with all this and realizes he has to think for himself.

This is why it is best to teach a child how to think rather than what to think.

(April 10, 2012 at 4:33 am)Kratos Wrote:

(April 9, 2012 at 9:17 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

Kratos Wrote:The irony is that religions out there with different tenets to the mass consumed secularist "mainstream" can shatter these brainwashing elements and help people to think for themselves.

I am dying to hear examples of this considering most of the major religions don't teach how to think, they tell you what to think.

Ok here is a scenario a child goes to a state school the fascist teacher there teaches in a biased and indoctrinating way. The child then comes across a Christian that starts preaching as they do, info counter to the facsist, ok the child becomes confused then meets a Muslim who says the Christian and the facsist have got it all wrong and Islam is perfect, as they do. The child becomes totally confused with all this and realizes he has to think for himself.

I've never met a fascist teacher.

(April 10, 2012 at 5:01 pm)Aegrus Wrote: I've never met a fascist teacher.

I have, but they're far from the majority.

Quote:Ok here is a scenario a child goes to a state school the fascist teacher there teaches in a biased and indoctrinating way.

More likely to happen in a church school. They are not big on thinking.

(April 10, 2012 at 4:33 am)Kratos Wrote:

(April 9, 2012 at 9:17 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

Kratos Wrote:The irony is that religions out there with different tenets to the mass consumed secularist "mainstream" can shatter these brainwashing elements and help people to think for themselves.

I am dying to hear examples of this considering most of the major religions don't teach how to think, they tell you what to think.

Ok here is a scenario a child goes to a state school the fascist teacher there teaches in a biased and indoctrinating way. The child then comes across a Christian that starts preaching as they do, info counter to the facsist, ok the child becomes confused then meets a Muslim who says the Christian and the facsist have got it all wrong and Islam is perfect, as they do. The child becomes totally confused with all this and realizes he has to think for himself.

Since people are usually indoctrinated into their religion from birth, this would more accurately read:

A child goes to church, the fascist christian teaches in a biased and indoctrinating way. The child goes to school after around 6 years, info counter to the fascist, ok the child becomes confused then meets a Muslim who says the fascist and the teacher have it all wrong and Islam is perfect. . .

You see my point. Your argument is better suited as an argument FOR atheism than for religion, since it is religion that has the child first, and would keep the child blind forever if it could.

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Atheism, secularism, are the eye-opening multiple points of view. We aim to teach people things- to explore the world around them. Religion is just dogma.

(April 10, 2012 at 4:46 am)NoMoreFaith Wrote: So telling people about mythology which contradicts scientific facts, confuses them enough to think for themselves.

Didn't it hurt to pull that out of your ass?

Scientific facts are under political control, we are not out of the Dark Ages yet.
Humans don't run on science, reason and logic, they run on primal instinct, emotion and conditioned emotion.
What drives you to be athiest, not science etc but emotion. A logical being would not care if people believed in God or not.
There is reality, but give me a perfect constant so we know what it is.
"I think therefore I am" is that good enough for you? Do you really know if you exist let alone God? This planet we have with life, an oasis in an endless ocean of black freezing space. Do you buy it is it real? Could it be that God is the only thing real and we are just a dream?