All states are "atheist states", what with there being no gods. Just so happens that some of them are filled with nutbags who believe in such things nonetheless.

(April 14, 2012 at 4:13 am)Kratos Wrote: The Soviet Union was atheist but it failed because it forced the people into atheism plus it was socialist and socialism works well in theory but doen't work in practise.

Are you taking the piss?

Pick up a history book sometime and find out the real reasons why the Soviet Union collapsed. I'm not doing your homework for you.

(April 14, 2012 at 4:13 am)Kratos Wrote: I suppose I have wandered off topic. If you live in a country with a large majority of theists, supporting democracy would be a self defeating system for an atheist. You need a state of your own like the Jews took Israel. Imagine an atheist state where people are all Godless and pragmatic. It would suit you fine, all laws, morals and ethics would be on a purely logical and scientific basis. The Soviet Union was atheist but it failed because it forced the people into atheism plus it was socialist and socialism works well in theory but doen't work in practise. So a capitalist atheist state would be good. Atheists could unite and petition the UN to give them a state of their own maybe big and empty like Canada. Or if you live in the USA you could have a partition and take some of the more Godless states like California and Nevada. India split to make Parkistan and Bangladesh. Even though there are more Muslims in India and the Banglas are probably more pagan than Muslim. Forgive my rambling, what do you think? At the end of the day it is pointless to have an atheist forum to no purpose. Everything is politics surely?

You've made a large number of errors.

1) Not all theists support imposing theistic beliefs on their secular government.

2) Constitutional democracies can create base laws which prohibit the imposition of theistic beliefs on the population or government, regardless of whether the country has a state religion (i.e. Colombia).

3) The USSR did not fail because it was atheist. It failed because of economic pressures, over-extended boundaries and corruption.

4) Atheists have a number of countries of their own, for example: the USA. The country and its laws are atheistic - the government cannot impose religious dogma on secular laws. Read the constitution or SCOTUS briefs once in a while. Residents can do whatever they want because the country is atheistic.

5) You are assuming everyone in Israel is Jewish and they all agree what that means, they aren't and they don't. Ever heard of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict?

6) Atheism does not imply pragmatism.

You seem to be arguing for a country that outlaws religion. This brings up the problem of how one defines religion (SCOTUS has the same problem). This ends up making it possible for such a government to outlaw any organized group with a common metaphysical doctrine. Religious countries do this and it results in internal strife and external pressures.

The idea is idiotic.

(April 14, 2012 at 11:23 am)toro Wrote:

(April 14, 2012 at 4:13 am)Kratos Wrote: I suppose I have wandered off topic. If you live in a country with a large majority of theists, supporting democracy would be a self defeating system for an atheist. You need a state of your own like the Jews took Israel. Imagine an atheist state where people are all Godless and pragmatic. It would suit you fine, all laws, morals and ethics would be on a purely logical and scientific basis. The Soviet Union was atheist but it failed because it forced the people into atheism plus it was socialist and socialism works well in theory but doen't work in practise. So a capitalist atheist state would be good. Atheists could unite and petition the UN to give them a state of their own maybe big and empty like Canada. Or if you live in the USA you could have a partition and take some of the more Godless states like California and Nevada. India split to make Parkistan and Bangladesh. Even though there are more Muslims in India and the Banglas are probably more pagan than Muslim. Forgive my rambling, what do you think? At the end of the day it is pointless to have an atheist forum to no purpose. Everything is politics surely?

You've made a large number of errors.

1) Not all theists support imposing theistic beliefs on their secular government.

2) Constitutional democracies can create base laws which prohibit the imposition of theistic beliefs on the population or government, regardless of whether the country has a state religion (i.e. Colombia).

3) The USSR did not fail because it was atheist. It failed because of economic pressures, over-extended boundaries and corruption.

4) Atheists have a number of countries of their own, for example: the USA. The country and its laws are atheistic - the government cannot impose religious dogma on secular laws. Read the constitution or SCOTUS briefs once in a while. Residents can do whatever they want because the country is atheistic.

5) You are assuming everyone in Israel is Jewish and they all agree what that means, they aren't and they don't. Ever heard of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict?

6) Atheism does not imply pragmatism.

You seem to be arguing for a country that outlaws religion. This brings up the problem of how one defines religion (SCOTUS has the same problem). This ends up making it possible for such a government to outlaw any organized group with a common metaphysical doctrine. Religious countries do this and it results in internal strife and external pressures.

The idea is idiotic.

The only distinction I would make is that the USA is Secular as opposed to Atheistic. In that, in theory, the Government is supposed to be strictly separate from the church and will make no laws concerning religion. In practice it is not strictly enforced in the way the founding fathers had intended. James Madison for instance, who helped write the First Amendment, was stringently opposed to chaplains for Congress and the Armed Forces.

One other thing: Cold War expenses played a huge part in sinking the economy of the USSR.

(April 14, 2012 at 7:18 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote:

(April 8, 2012 at 7:47 pm)Kratos Wrote:

(April 8, 2012 at 7:24 pm)Insanity x Wrote:

(April 8, 2012 at 6:58 pm)Kratos Wrote: Hi I was wondering if athiests believe in evolution. And Earth is a fairly new world cosmically speaking could it be possible that God/s evolved before Earth? Let me simplify, a god is a being with the power of creation, a master of maipulation of energy and matter. Could it be possible that in the eons of the Chaos the Gods evolved?

That would make the god(s) irrelevant seems if they evolved we could evolve anyway. It sounds closer to the aliens did it idea than what you would call a modern god.

As far as possibility of that I see it as very very unlikely for a powerful being that could be considered super human. Almost certainly impossible for the god of any 'modern' religion.

Modern religion has it's uses, if you convince the masses God is watching you all the time and you better be good or else Hell fire will be your lot. You need less police. You have self oppression, today Godless people tend to use Marxism, Feminism and Humanism to oppress themselves. Think about it, when the USA was devoutly Christian there was far less crime.

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Sociologist Phil Zuckerman analyzed previous social science research on secularity and non-belief, and concluded that societal well-being is positively correlated with irreligion. His findings relating specifically to atheism include:[145][154]

Compared to religious people, "atheists and secular people" are less nationalistic, prejudiced, antisemitic, racist, dogmatic, ethnocentric, close-minded, and authoritarian.
In the US, in states with the highest percentages of atheists, the murder rate is lower than average. In the most religious US states, the murder rate is higher than average.


Get your fucking facts straight, bible thumper.

Sociology is another pseudo science which uses quantitive instead of qualitive data to push a political agenda. Statistics can be manipulated.

I have not quoted anything from the Bible, personally I couldn't get past Genesis, what a drag. Metamorphosis by Ovid seems better. Revelations was quite interesting but at the end of the day it is mostly a dusky storybook. And as I am a honky I prefer European myths and legends.
Aliens could be mistaken for Gods. I suppose it is all about symantics. What is God/s? You don't believe in God/s but you believe what you read from people who can lie and distort and manipulate for all sorts of reasons. Wouldn't nilhilism be more logical?

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(April 14, 2012 at 8:42 am)Rhythm Wrote: All states are "atheist states", what with there being no gods. Just so happens that some of them are filled with nutbags who believe in such things nonetheless.

In reality states don't even exist, land does but people make the boundaries. And as far as I know land is inanimate.
If these lands are full of "nutbags" wouldn't you want to live in a land that wasn't?
Look on the bright side these "nutbags" are trying to be good. Imagine being surrounded by Satanichists who just want to torture the fuck out of you all day. Hmmm sounds like fun, I gotta go and listen to Cannibal Corpse, Paedo necrophile track ahhhh blessed are the sick.
Anyways have a nice day.

Ah, so there we have it: You don't believe in abstraction-unless it is a god.

(April 9, 2012 at 7:26 am)Rusko Wrote: "Evolution is just a theory, but yet so is gravity and you don't see people jumping off buildings."

Actually gravity is a law. We know gravity will bring you down (what goes up must come down). Evolution is unproven.

(April 17, 2012 at 2:57 pm)Abishalom Wrote:

(April 9, 2012 at 7:26 am)Rusko Wrote: "Evolution is just a theory, but yet so is gravity and you don't see people jumping off buildings."

Actually gravity is a law. We know gravity will bring you down (what goes up must come down). Evolution is unproven.

Evolution is supported by all the available evidence and the experts in the field of biology.

But you think otherwise.

I think I'll throw my arm in with the experts.

(April 17, 2012 at 2:57 pm)Abishalom Wrote: Actually gravity is a law. We know gravity will bring you down (what goes up must come down). Evolution is unproven.

Um.. No.

Laws are rules within a theory. For instance Newtons Laws of Motions, are laws within the theory of Gravity.

Read a textbook.

"Does it frighten you, that an afternoon on wiki-fucking-pedia might enlighten you".

Evolution and Gravity are accepted scientific facts, with supporting evidence. They are still theories because they are falsifiable, which means, something might come along to overrule current knowledge... like relativity did with Newton.

(April 17, 2012 at 3:09 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(April 17, 2012 at 2:57 pm)Abishalom Wrote:

(April 9, 2012 at 7:26 am)Rusko Wrote: "Evolution is just a theory, but yet so is gravity and you don't see people jumping off buildings."

Actually gravity is a law. We know gravity will bring you down (what goes up must come down). Evolution is unproven.

Evolution is supported by all the available evidence and the experts in the field of biology.

But you think otherwise.

I think I'll throw my arm in with the experts.

That's funny because the none of the experts in each field can prove evolution. So they believe that another field will prove it. Do you see the circle of reason?

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(April 17, 2012 at 3:10 pm)NoMoreFaith Wrote:

(April 17, 2012 at 2:57 pm)Abishalom Wrote: Actually gravity is a law. We know gravity will bring you down (what goes up must come down). Evolution is unproven.

Um.. No.

Laws are rules within a theory. For instance Newtons Laws of Motions, are laws within the theory of Gravity.

Read a textbook.

"Does it frighten you, that an afternoon on wiki-fucking-pedia might enlighten you".

What laws are written in evolution?