Assuming hypothetically the NT is true, what's not to love about Jesus other than perhaps his statements on punishment?

He talks constantly about justice and equality, loving our neighbors. He addresses phony religious people with bitter sarcasm. He gives us similies more powerful (IMO) and certainly easier to understand than Shakespeare's. He sets up a moral standard that should make all of us cringe with conviction, and stop judging each other immediately. (Anyone who judges another after reading his Sermon on the Mount is a fool, Christian or not)

He takes a thief who has probably done nothing good to paradise, merely for recognizing him as Lord. He is surprised and pleased by the faith of a Gentile centurion, not a follower apparently, who recognizes his authority to heal. He promises to return and make all things right when the world finally is ready to vote him King. He comes to preach to the downtrodden that God loves them all the same, and gives them hope for peace and justice in a desperately evil world. Then he goes and dies on a cross so we don't have to die in our sins, doing what Ghandi called "the perfect act" of love.

What's not to love?

(April 24, 2012 at 1:17 am)radorth Wrote: Assuming hypothetically the NT is true, what's not to love about Jesus other than perhaps his statements on punishment?

He talks constantly about justice and equality, loving our neighbors. He addresses phony religious people with bitter sarcasm. He gives us similies more powerful (IMO) and certainly easier to understand than Shakespeare's. He sets up a moral standard that should make all of us cringe with conviction, and stop judging each other immediately. (Anyone who judges another after reading his Sermon on the Mount is a fool, Christian or not)

He takes a thief who has probably done nothing good to paradise, merely for recognizing him as Lord. He is surprised and pleased by the faith of a centurion, not a follower apparently, who recognizes his authority to heal. He promises to return and make all things right when the world finally is ready to vote him King. He comes to preach to the downtrodden that God loves them all the same, and gives them hope for peace and justice in a desperately evil world.

What's not to love?

Assuming hypothetically [DC Comics] is true, what's not to love about [Superman] other than perhaps his statements on [the American way]?

Edit: You'll probably call strawman on that, but you'd be missing my point. The likability of a person written about in a document (whether or not the document was intended to be taken as fictional or historical) does not increase his historicity or deity. If you realize that, I'm not sure what the point of your post was.

Go back and read it again. Not one character in the bible is more in love with the idea of hell as jesus. He loved talking about it, he lusted at the thought of sinners burning there, but more than that, he swooned at the idea of nonbelievers burning there, regardless of their deeds.

Thought crimes. He preached that he could read your thoughts and you'd be judged for sinful ones, regardless of whether or not you acted on them. I find something really disturbing about that. How can one control their thoughts? Just to control it, you have to think about what it is you ought not think of, thereby sinning by trying not to sin. It's stupid. Why would I love that.

Lets not forget about the part where he sacrifices himself for the sins of all people... the very sins he condemned. So, it really doesn't matter if you have a natural (sinful) thought about your smokin' hot neighbor lady, all you have to do is be a believer, ask for forgiveness, and boom.. absolution express.

Just the way god brought himself into this world as his own son makes me gag. He's god, right? Omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. So, instead of making it discreet, he sends winged slaves to earth to let everyone know he's coming. What happened as a result? He probably should've foreseen that King Herod was going to heinously murder massive numbers of infant children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_the_Innocents

If I was an omniscient, omnipotent being, I would probably found a way to avoid that situation, but hey god/jesus is awesomely mysterious right?

Yeah, fuck him, fuck the new testament, fuck jesus. Not very much there that gives me the warm fuzzies.

Well, you asked.

I prefer Batman.

(April 24, 2012 at 1:17 am)radorth Wrote: Assuming hypothetically the NT is true, what's not to love about Jesus other than perhaps his statements on punishment?

He talks constantly about justice and equality, loving our neighbors. He addresses phony religious people with bitter sarcasm. He gives us similies more powerful (IMO) and certainly easier to understand than Shakespeare's. He sets up a moral standard that should make all of us cringe with conviction, and stop judging each other immediately. (Anyone who judges another after reading his Sermon on the Mount is a fool, Christian or not)

He takes a thief who has probably done nothing good to paradise, merely for recognizing him as Lord. He is surprised and pleased by the faith of a Gentile centurion, not a follower apparently, who recognizes his authority to heal. He promises to return and make all things right when the world finally is ready to vote him King. He comes to preach to the downtrodden that God loves them all the same, and gives them hope for peace and justice in a desperately evil world. Then he goes and dies on a cross so we don't have to die in our sins, doing what Ghandi called "the perfect act" of love.

What's not to love?

Although there might some truth to all this, this is quite irrelevant as to why I don't personally believe.

I don't believe not because it doesn't appeal to me or because I don't 'love' something in it. It's because as a free thinker I can't honestly say I believe it and keep a straight face. There's flaws that stop me from rationally being able to believe in Jesus.

(April 24, 2012 at 1:17 am)radorth Wrote: Assuming hypothetically the NT is true, what's not to love about Jesus other than perhaps his statements on punishment?

I can't love someone I don't think was even a real historical figure.

Conversely, even IF he was a real living man, flesh and blood, its not practical or sensible to love or hate the dead. They're dead. There's no person left to love or hate anymore.

As for his supposed "actions", "works" or "teachings" (again if we assume they're credited to a real person who lived thousands of years ago), I prefer to read up on the lives of actual humanists who had an impact on their society and pre-date him such the Ancient Greek philosophers who, not to mention, didn't run around with a massive god-complex.

radorth Wrote:He takes a thief who has probably done nothing good to paradise, merely for recognizing him as Lord.

Well, this pretty much sums it up. Jesus walks around preaching to others about how they should behave, but when it comes down to it, what really matters is that you believe he is god. Not what I would call admirable.

Considering he spoke to a fig tree and it died I would surmise Jesus had extremely bad breath and that is something not even a mother would love.

(April 24, 2012 at 1:17 am)radorth Wrote: Assuming hypothetically the NT is true, what's not to love about Jesus other than perhaps his statements on punishment?

Right off the bat, you've asked a malformed question. Separating the scheme of faith-based salvation where the alternative is eternal and cruel torture from Jesus is like separating the super powers from Superman. In both cases, so much of the character was interwoven into what you want to exclude that it's hard to make any sense of what's left. At best, you have a really hollow shell left.

Quote:He talks constantly about justice and equality,

When? He uses kings and slaves often in his parables. At one point, he seems fine with the idea of a king killing those who didn't wish to be ruled over by him. At another, he says the slave who disobeys his master shall be beaten with many stripes. He certainly never took the opportunity as a godman to tell people to abolish the practice of slavery. He never advocated equality among the genders. He said nothing about abolishing the homophobic laws of the OT.

Quote:loving our neighbors.

Such pithy admonishments to love are pretty hollow when constantly accompanied by threats that if we don't love him, he'll torture us forever. Jesus was in fact quick to throw tantrums and condemn others when he felt he wasn't given the love and respect he was entitled to.

Quote:He addresses phony religious people with bitter sarcasm.

Just running down the competition.

Quote:He gives us similies more powerful (IMO) and certainly easier to understand than Shakespeare's.

What teachings of Jesus did you read? Just go here and click at random. His teachings at best made no sense and at worst were obnoxious.

Quote:He sets up a moral standard that should make all of us cringe with conviction, and stop judging each other immediately. (Anyone who judges another after reading his Sermon on the Mount is a fool, Christian or not)

The sermon on the mount is highly overrated. Love your enemies? Do good to those who harm you? Who are we kidding? If Christians actually followed his advice the religion would have been wiped out long ago. And don't get me started on the whole self-mutilation parts of the sermon.

Quote:He takes a thief who has probably done nothing good to paradise, merely for recognizing him as Lord.

...and so the message of Christian "morality" is it doesn't matter what you do as long as you just believe what you're told to believe.

Quote:He comes to preach to the downtrodden that God loves them all the same, and gives them hope for peace and justice in a desperately evil world.

Jesus: "Screw the poor. Live it up while I'm here."

Quote:Then he goes and dies on a cross so we don't have to die in our sins, doing what Ghandi called "the perfect act" of love.

How does a bloody sadistic sacrifice make anything better? How is this an act of love? How barbaric are we that we still believe that blood sacrifices appease wrathful gods?

Quote:What's not to love?

What is there to love?

(April 24, 2012 at 6:29 am)Welsh cake Wrote:

(April 24, 2012 at 1:17 am)radorth Wrote: Assuming hypothetically the NT is true, what's not to love about Jesus other than perhaps his statements on punishment?

I can't love someone I don't think was even a real historical figure.

Conversely, even IF he was a real living man, flesh and blood, its not practical or sensible to love or hate the dead. They're dead. There's no person left to love or hate anymore.

As for his supposed "actions", "works" or "teachings" (again if we assume they're credited to a real person who lived thousands of years ago), I prefer to read up on the lives of actual humanists who had an impact on their society and pre-date him such the Ancient Greek philosophers who, not to mention, didn't run around with a massive god-complex.

So you do not love those you loved before they died, seems to me you had no love for them at all.