God told me that he only talks to me, so the rest of you are just full of shit.

(April 26, 2012 at 3:03 am)teaearlgreyhot Wrote:

(April 26, 2012 at 2:45 am)Godschild Wrote: ....
Now to explain, when one tries to make God real in their life it is they who are doing the work, when one allows God to work in their life it is God working through them, and until you allow God to work through you one will not see the will of God in their lives. If one does not understand God's will for one's life, then why should one expect to be able to experience God.

Thanks for answering. But under what you explained, the person when "allowing God to work in their life" cannot know it's really "God" "working" in their lives. It could all be rationalizations of seemingly random and meaningless events that the person subjectively interpretations to be the "workings of God" in their life. And what does "allowing God to work in your life" mean anyway? How does one get that process started? And what exactly is "God's will"?

Edit: corrected some grammar mistakes. It's getting late here.

Don't worry about the grammar with me, mines horrible. It's getting late, no it's late here, but then I will be up the rest of the night, my Rottie has given birth to 8 pups, so I'm on duty for the night.

You're welcome. One will know, it's more than difficult to explain since I would be trying to explain how the omnipotent God works. Things can be coincidental up to a point, then one see's that the precision of things happening just could not be that coincidental. As far as God getting started working in one's life, He could start by working through others to get one headed in the right direction. Then the one will begin to pray and ask God for direction, after that all bets are off as to how He will do things, but there's one thing for sure if you wait on Him, He will set you on a road where you will see wonderful things happening and understand that God is bringing things to fruition in your life. I've experienced this many times when He put me to work with the youth in our church. That was many yeas ago, I no longer work directly in their teaching, but God still has me helping youth, even outside the church. Currently God has set me on an amazing path working with youth and young adults with drug, alcohol, depression, cutting and ect., and though it's a road I'm not down very far yet, the results have been amazing. Now I guess you would like to know how God got me started on this road and how I knew it was Him doing the work. It started a few years ago with my niece, who became addicted to drugs, and after her rehabilitation I went to her graduation, and saw the work that Christian organizations were doing to help people with addictions of all kinds. Then an former youth of mine had gotten into drugs and was in bad shape, I saw an opportunity to help and did. The speed with which things worked out to get him in a program and his willingness to go was far beyond coincidental. This past Sunday, after six months in rehab, he was in on a week's pass and gave his testimony and the change in this young man was amazing. From that I now have an opportunity to help a 15 year old, who's drug problem has led to cutting and he has said he's ready to be helped. I'm excited, but I know that until he's in the program, well it's all just talk, but here's where prayer goes to work. We'll see. Sorry for rambling on, but like I said I'm up for the night.

---

(April 26, 2012 at 3:30 am)Adjusted Sanity Wrote: God told me that he only talks to me, so the rest of you are just full of shit.

Since your religious view says, I am god, that must mean you talk to yourself and we all know what that means. You're nuts.

(April 23, 2012 at 10:09 am)FallentoReason Wrote: I just want to ask you theists how you know when God has spoken to you? I don't mean to ask this in a mocking sort of way or anything of the sort. I sincerely want to hear from you guys how it happens.

You don't necessarily have to share a particular instance of this happening, as I don't want to create a thread where atheists will come and start making fun of it or whatever. Actually.. I guess it's kind of hard to ask this question and not have people start posting silly stuff as a bi product of my question..

Anyways, I'm just interested because it seems like every Christian friend I have has had personal conversations with God.. So is there a definite way of knowing?

There is no definite way of knowing in someone else, of course. But most Christians will say they, in themselves, do know for sure. One could argue that if God didn't "reply" in some way, shape or form, people would stop being Christians. Unlike any other religion, Christianity relies on a personal relationship with God. Followers of other faiths can go years without ever receiving notice from their god and think nothing of it. Muslims, for example, pray out of duty. They have a set list of prayers which ask Allah for blessings and that praise him. Other than those, there is no exchange. Muslims don't ask Allah to change them internally, just to forgive them and make them prosperous. There is no "Your will be done," in Islam, or Hinduism, or in any other religion on earth. These are by nature "selfish" religions. People pray to the gods for what they get out of it. In Christianity, we pray for what we can do for God. "Answers" do not come so much in the form of blessings or words. They are more a change in lifestyle, a growing closer to Jesus.

God is in us all the time. We don't necessarily need to ask him to learn what we should do. By "should" I mean what is best for His glory, and in turn, best for us as well. The more we do God's will the more content we are. The more time we spend in prayer, the closer we are to God. Prayer is about strengthening your relationship with Jesus. You are looking for new explanations on how He "answers" prayers, and are having trouble finding some because it is hard to put into words, and the words we use have deeper meaning than their dictionary definitions--"hearing" from God, for example, is not literal. When you connect with God through prayer, there is no physical reaction, like His mind touching ours, or cold sweats running down our arms. It's spiritual. As such, answers come in the form of inspiration. See the word root there- "in-spira-tion." It means to breath in. In Greek, breath is synonymous with spirit. When you are inspired to do something, or to see something in a certain way, it feels as if you yourself thought it up. It's your thought, not a voice or a radio signal. God made nature to do His work for Him; He doesn't need to break it to communicate with us--this includes the function of our brains. How do you know it's inspiration, and not your personal thought, then? Through careful evaluation. Ask yourself: Does it reflect what the Bible says? Did it seem to come out of nowhere, and help your situation in a way you never imagined?

I find that reading the Bible is a sort of prayer/meditation. While reading, my trouble is invariably answered in some way, though it may not be the way I expected or hoped. I may be having a problem with my boss, thinking he is irritating. I find myself reading 1 John 4 and the section on love. Instead of fixing the situation by removing the stressor, God has helped me see that the problem lies in my heart, and not with my boss. Ultimately, I am more content with my life. I also became a better person through it. Prayer is partly about mending faults in yourself, like in this example, and also about comfort/encouragement, and lastly and just as importantly, for helping others. Prayer is related to fellowship; it is not one-on-one communication in the darkest closet of your house. It's not just private or personal. God is in all of us. That means he literally dwells inside and hears my every thought, and is able to repeatedly inspire me one way or another should I choose to listen. Sometimes it takes lots of coaxing before I do listen. I feel anxiety and guilt, as if something is unfinished and needs to be done. Non-believers feel guilt, so they get a taste of what it's like. Conscience is the outer edge of spirituality and prayer, the outpost next to the fort. Just as everyone feels remorse for already-completed actions, Christians through prayer feel drawn to do certain actions in the future tense.

I think non-believers don't experience this "draw" because their minds are walled up. That is not an accusation. To become a Christian, one needs to fully convict their self of sin and accept Jesus' sacrifice for all. That initiates a response and a drive in the converted individual. Because a non-believer is unwilling to admit their predisposition towards evil they feel no answer from God in the form of impulse or thought. If you want God to reveal himself you must first accept that He is there. Then you must put His wishes above your own. His wishes will become your own and you will be happier in a deeper, longer-lasting way. Prayer is not like a boring sermon. It is you in full contact with your creator, fully intertwined around one another. The love story between you and God is the purpose of the universe. You are only satisfied when you are in it, and before that you don't even know what true satisfaction is. Imagine your feeling after a job well done. You worked all day and just finished your lovely new house. That feeling of achievement is better than simply buying the house, is it not? As much as we seemingly hate work, nothing delights us as much as when we finish it. That's what a relationship with Jesus is like. It is the perpetual existence in that feeling of euphoria. None of your neighbors understand why you toil so much for such small resale value. You tell them they have to try it to know what it's like. They say, "No. It looks boring." You shrug your shoulders and move on to your next home improvement project, craving another dose of the euphoria. For Christians, that home improvement project is prayer. It's hard and encouraging at the same time, but at the end you're always soaring. Now if prayer is but a shutter-shot of a spiritual experience, imagine full exposure. That is heaven.

Do not take any of my words as absolute truth. I describe prayer as I see it, but the true purpose and meaning of the act is something we will never fully understand until we become like Christ in heaven. I know it's hard to accept Christians saying "you won't know unless you feel it" but that is the reality. In your position, I would probably search high and low for a natural explanation too--that Christians are all delirious. That it's all in their minds, or they're all lying and none of them feel God in prayer either. Pointing these possibilities out, however, achieves nothing. If you created this thread as a way to pad your own views on the subject, you're only driving yourself deeper into your fallible mind. If you are honestly searching for God, I don't know what to tell you to other than to keep searching. Read his Word. Pray honestly, and not testingly, that your eyes will be opened.

@ Undeceived, well put brother, well put.

Thanks Undeceived for your post.

Quote:Do not take any of my words as absolute truth. I describe prayer as I see it, but the true purpose and meaning of the act is something we will never fully understand until we become like Christ in heaven. I know it's hard to accept Christians saying "you won't know unless you feel it" but that is the reality. In your position, I would probably search high and low for a natural explanation too--that Christians are all delirious. That it's all in their minds, or they're all lying and none of them feel God in prayer either. Pointing these possibilities out, however, achieves nothing. If you created this thread as a way to pad your own views on the subject, you're only driving yourself deeper into your fallible mind.

I'd like to begin my reply by saying that I made this thread so that I could stop talking and listen to you guys instead. As you said (but with a different meaning) God communicating with them is all in their minds. That's exactly the point. I can't know what that experience was like because I'm not the one that experienced it.

Being a free thinker, I'm interested in any sort of discussion whether I believe in it or not and lately I've been curious about this topic.

Quote:God is in us all the time. We don't necessarily need to ask him to learn what we should do. By "should" I mean what is best for His glory, and in turn, best for us as well. The more we do God's will the more content we are. The more time we spend in prayer, the closer we are to God. Prayer is about strengthening your relationship with Jesus. You are looking for new explanations on how He "answers" prayers, and are having trouble finding some because it is hard to put into words, and the words we use have deeper meaning than their dictionary definitions--"hearing" from God, for example, is not literal. When you connect with God through prayer, there is no physical reaction, like His mind touching ours, or cold sweats running down our arms. It's spiritual. As such, answers come in the form of inspiration. See the word root there- "in-spira-tion." It means to breath in. In Greek, breath is synonymous with spirit. When you are inspired to do something, or to see something in a certain way, it feels as if you yourself thought it up. It's your thought, not a voice or a radio signal. God made nature to do His work for Him; He doesn't need to break it to communicate with us--this includes the function of our brains. How do you know it's inspiration, and not your personal thought, then? Through careful evaluation. Ask yourself: Does it reflect what the Bible says? Did it seem to come out of nowhere, and help your situation in a way you never imagined?

I know exactly what you mean here. The thing is though, there's two sides to the story here (in my eyes anyways). Either those Christians that hear God in their head (like almost everyone at my church who claim God said this or that) have understood the Word properly and that's how God works OR like you're suggesting God is supposed to be 'present' in a much more organic way, like getting inspired as you say. Because of my views, I can't begin to understand those around me that hear God in their head. With your view, it seems as if two things could be happening; 1) that's how God communicates or 2) you've explained it in a way that fits with what I see as the 'absence' of God, or in other words, your understanding of the nature in which God communicates has been moulded around what you 'observe' per se.

Quote:I think non-believers don't experience this "draw" because their minds are walled up. That is not an accusation. To become a Christian, one needs to fully convict their self of sin and accept Jesus' sacrifice for all. That initiates a response and a drive in the converted individual. Because a non-believer is unwilling to admit their predisposition towards evil they feel no answer from God in the form of impulse or thought. If you want God to reveal himself you must first accept that He is there. Then you must put His wishes above your own. His wishes will become your own and you will be happier in a deeper, longer-lasting way.

I ticked all these boxes as a former Christian. The only new happiness that I felt in my life was that I finally trusted God with everything. Nowadays I'm just as happy minus that extra bit of happiness from sharing my life with God, which doesn't impact me negatively. It's like if someone said 'you can have this car for free' and then moments later they add 'actually, I can't do that'. That's my experience anyways.

(April 26, 2012 at 6:00 am)FallentoReason Wrote: …fits with what I see as the 'absence' of God, or in other words, your understanding of the nature in which God communicates has been moulded around what you 'observe' per se.

To me it looks like both you and Undecievied have similar experiences. The only difference is to what you see as the cause of that experience. Undecieved believes God initiates a physiological response to devotional activities. You see a physiological response to valued mental constructs. Taken from a dualist perspective, Undecieved appears to invoke an unnecessary element, God, to describe the experience.

In my own case I have had physical experiences indistinguishable religious ones. For example, when I see veterans marching with the stars and stripes, I feel intense respect and gratitude for their sacrifices and pride for the liberty they secured for this nation. My heart pounds and I get that familiar shiver down my spine. That’s a purely secular experience and if I attribute that to God I have a problem. The grief of some North Koreans over the death of Kim Jong Il suggests that even people in the most brutal dictatorships get the same feelings. I find it hard to believe God would inspire people’s devotion to such an evil man.

What exactly is the difference between the emotion a person feels when they ‘hunger for the Word of God’ and infernal fire that drives lustful impulses? I see both as confirmation that you have made something an important part of your being, for good or evil. The only test I can currently imagine for telling one from the other is to evaluate the effect it has on one’s life, i.e. the ‘fruits’.

(April 25, 2012 at 2:03 am)Drich Wrote: I spent 8 years as one and truly believe I was as lost then as i was before I went to church. your work does not make you Christian. It is a matter your heart.

If I were FallentoReason I'd be rather pissed off with you right about now.

You're seriously comparing FtR's efforts to start up missionary work and raising the necessary funds, to you getting off your fat arse to go to church for one Sunday morning service?

Where do you get off?

(April 26, 2012 at 4:43 am)Undeceived Wrote: There is no "Your will be done," in Islam, or Hinduism, or in any other religion on earth. These are by nature "selfish" religions. People pray to the gods for what they get out of it. In Christianity, we pray for what we can do for God.

Bullshit.

Because:

Quote:The more we do God's will the more content we are.

You pray for your own personal comfort and benefit.

Moving on.

Quote:It's spiritual.

Meaning what exactly?

Quote:As such, answers come in the form of inspiration. See the word root there- "in-spira-tion." It means to breath in.

Don't be so ignorant. The word inspiration comes from the Latin noun 'inspiratio' and verb 'inspirare' which originally meant "to blow into", not to breathe in.

You're getting 'inspirare' mixed up with the translated term 'divinitus inspirata' ("divinely breathed into").

Question you need to ask yourself is does your background of Christian theology blow or suck?

Quote:In Greek, breath is synonymous with spirit.

Oh crap not this bollocks from you again. No it doesn't! The word "Pneuma" (πνεύμα) is the ancient Greek word for "breath" in classical antiquity means "air in motion, breath, wind,". It is not be confused with the easily distinguishable word "psyche" (ψυχή) which in classical philosophy originally meant "breath of life", but is regularly translated in religious context today as "spirit" or most often "soul".

Question you need to ask yourself is does your background of Ancient Greek history suck or blow?

Quote:It's your thought, not a voice or a radio signal. God made nature to do His work for Him;

This does not help your argument for God. Not in the slightest.

You are basically asserting it all happened naturally, without any intervention from a god. So once you've dug yourself out that stupid assertion perhaps you'll explain whether you think the universe first came about naturally or divinely? You can't have both.

Quote:I may be having a problem with my boss, thinking he is irritating. I find myself reading 1 John 4 and the section on love. Instead of fixing the situation by removing the stressor, God has helped me see that the problem lies in my heart, and not with my boss.

Or maybe your boss really is fucking irritating? I digress, I don't know what your boss is like with regards to interacting with other people in and out of the workplace. Nevertheless, telling us all this is senseless as we've no experience in dealing with your boss on a day-to-day basis.

Quote:Prayer is partly about mending faults in yourself, like in this example, and also about comfort/encouragement, and lastly and just as importantly, for helping others.

Couldn't you just skip straight to the part where you, oh I dunno, help others. It doesn't matter how much you pray, if the act of prayer itself is counter-productive and a huge waste of time, you're not going to improve your faults by continually committing more time to the pointless exercise in mental masturbation. >.>

Quote:God is in all of us.

Ewww.

Quote:I think non-believers don't experience this "draw" because their minds are walled up.

Yeah that's right keep telling yourself its everyone else who's close-minded and not you. >.>

Quote:That is not an accusation.

Its bad comedy. From you.

Quote:Because a non-believer is unwilling to admit their predisposition towards evil they feel no answer from God in the form of impulse or thought.

In what context are you using the word "evil" in?

Quote:Then you must put His wishes above your own.

Ha. No. God can kindly get off his cosmic fat arse surrounded by angels constantly singing his praises (according to your theology) for one damn minute and inter-fucking-act with humanity.

Quote:The love story between you and God is the purpose of the universe.

I'm asexual mate. I find talk of romance and love stories to be a complete and utter load of bollocks as it is. Adding god to that mess doesn't woo me over I'm afraid. Either that, or you're terrible at selling god as a product to me.

Quote:You are only satisfied when you are in it, and before that you don't even know what true satisfaction is.

Ewww (again).

Quote:That is heaven.

I'm content with what little I've got. No god or gods required to make me happy. You have issues about wanting more status and power with an all-powerful creator on the other hand. Serious issues.

Quote:Do not take any of my words as absolute truth.

We'll just keep humouring you instead then until you finally run out of puff...

(April 26, 2012 at 1:59 am)Godschild Wrote:

(April 25, 2012 at 6:42 am)Mosrhun Wrote: The feeling of a god speaking to you through prayer is nothing but the power of positive thought on the body. The main thing religion spoon feeds you is faith. If you honestly believe that you are speaking to god, your body will react and you will feel a connection or presence. Nothing divine here.

You know this how.

I was baptist for 15 years. I "felt god's presence" plenty of times.

G-C hates it when people resort to "facts."

He thinks its unfair or something.

(April 26, 2012 at 1:59 am)Godschild Wrote: ...your problem was you tried to make God real in your life, instead you should have let God be real in your life.

Ohhh, THAT'S what I did wrong.



This next quote from Undeceived is one of the biggest bull shit stories I've ever read on this site, but I went ahead and highlighted a few of the more glaring stupidities for your amusement.

(April 26, 2012 at 4:43 am)Undeceived Wrote: There is no definite way of knowing in someone else, of course. But most Christians will say they, in themselves, do know for sure. One could argue that if God didn't "reply" in some way, shape or form, people would stop being Christians. Unlike any other religion, Christianity relies on a personal relationship with God. Followers of other faiths can go years without ever receiving notice from their god and think nothing of it. Muslims, for example, pray out of duty. They have a set list of prayers which ask Allah for blessings and that praise him. Other than those, there is no exchange. Muslims don't ask Allah to change them internally, just to forgive them and make them prosperous. There is no "Your will be done," in Islam, or Hinduism, or in any other religion on earth. These are by nature "selfish" religions. People pray to the gods for what they get out of it. In Christianity, we pray for what we can do for God. "Answers" .... are more a change in lifestyle, a growing closer to Jesus.

God is in us all the time. We don't necessarily need to ask him to learn what we should do. By "should" I mean what is best for His glory, and in turn, best for us as well. The more we do God's will the more content we are. The more time we spend in prayer, the closer we are to God. Prayer is about strengthening your relationship with Jesus. You are looking for new explanations on how He "answers" prayers, and are having trouble finding some because it is hard to put into words, and the words we use have deeper meaning than their dictionary definitions--"hearing" from God, for example, is not literal. When you connect with God through prayer, there is no physical reaction, like His mind touching ours, or cold sweats running down our arms. It's spiritual. As such, answers come in the form of inspiration. See the word root there- "in-spira-tion." It means to breath in. In Greek, breath is synonymous with spirit. When you are inspired to do something, or to see something in a certain way, it feels as if you yourself thought it up. It's your thought, not a voice or a radio signal. God made nature to do His work for Him; He doesn't need to break it to communicate with us--this includes the function of our brains. How do you know it's inspiration, and not your personal thought, then? Through careful evaluation. Ask yourself: Does it reflect what the Bible says? Did it seem to come out of nowhere, and help your situation in a way you never imagined?

I find that reading the Bible is a sort of prayer/meditation. While reading, my trouble is invariably answered in some way, though it may not be the way I expected or hoped. I may be having a problem with my boss, thinking he is irritating. I find myself reading 1 John 4 and the section on love. Instead of fixing the situation by removing the stressor, God has helped me see that the problem lies in my heart, and not with my boss. Ultimately, I am more content with my life. I also became a better person through it. Prayer is partly about mending faults in yourself, like in this example, and also about comfort/encouragement, and lastly and just as importantly, for helping others. Prayer is related to fellowship; it is not one-on-one communication in the darkest closet of your house. It's not just private or personal. God is in all of us. That means he literally dwells inside and hears my every thought, and is able to repeatedly inspire me one way or another should I choose to listen. Sometimes it takes lots of coaxing before I do listen. I feel anxiety and guilt, as if something is unfinished and needs to be done. Non-believers feel guilt, so they get a taste of what it's like. Conscience is the outer edge of spirituality and prayer, the outpost next to the fort. Just as everyone feels remorse for already-completed actions, Christians through prayer feel drawn to do certain actions in the future tense.

I think non-believers don't experience this "draw" because their minds are walled up. That is not an accusation. To become a Christian, one needs to fully convict their self of sin and accept Jesus' sacrifice for all. That initiates a response and a drive in the converted individual. Because a non-believer is unwilling to admit their predisposition towards evil they feel no answer from God in the form of impulse or thought. If you want God to reveal himself you must first accept that He is there. Then you must put His wishes above your own. His wishes will become your own and you will be happier in a deeper, longer-lasting way. Prayer is not like a boring sermon. It is you in full contact with your creator, fully intertwined around one another. The love story between you and God is the purpose of the universe. You are only satisfied when you are in it, and before that you don't even know what true satisfaction is. Imagine your feeling after a job well done. You worked all day and just finished your lovely new house. That feeling of achievement is better than simply buying the house, is it not? As much as we seemingly hate work, nothing delights us as much as when we finish it. That's what a relationship with Jesus is like. It is the perpetual existence in that feeling of euphoria. None of your neighbors understand why you toil so much for such small resale value. You tell them they have to try it to know what it's like. They say, "No. It looks boring." You shrug your shoulders and move on to your next home improvement project, craving another dose of the euphoria. For Christians, that home improvement project is prayer. It's hard and encouraging at the same time, but at the end you're always soaring. Now if prayer is but a shutter-shot of a spiritual experience, imagine full exposure. That is heaven.

Do not take any of my words as absolute truth. I describe prayer as I see it, but the true purpose and meaning of the act is something we will never fully understand until we become like Christ in heaven. I know it's hard to accept Christians saying "you won't know unless you feel it" but that is the reality. In your position, I would probably search high and low for a natural explanation too--that Christians are all delirious. That it's all in their minds, or they're all lying and none of them feel God in prayer either. Pointing these possibilities out, however, achieves nothing. If you created this thread as a way to pad your own views on the subject, you're only driving yourself deeper into your fallible mind. If you are honestly searching for God, I don't know what to tell you to other than to keep searching. Read his Word. Pray honestly, and not testingly, that your eyes will be opened.

Why is this TOTAL bull shit you may ask? Well there's a dozen reasons, but one of the most obvious is that there is no inner peace. There is no spirit moving through you and there is nothing more than warm fuzzy feelings that you created on your own. The proof of this is in the fact that devout preachers of 10, 15, 20 years (undeniable True Christians™) figure it out and turn their back on what is clearly their own emotional hangups.
http://clergyproject.org/