(May 6, 2012 at 10:49 am)tobie Wrote: They do commit less crimes. I forget the exact statistics, but over 90% of the US prison population are theists.

More like 98+% Tobie.

(May 6, 2012 at 10:49 am)tobie Wrote: They do commit less crimes. I forget the exact statistics, but over 90% of the US prison population are theists.

HAHAHAHA herpa derp derp huh?

This idiot is actually using our own points, to try and prove our own points wrong, but in the process, proves our points right?

(May 6, 2012 at 10:47 am)Abishalom Wrote:

(May 6, 2012 at 10:39 am)Paul the Human Wrote: The term is "Per Capita". Do more atheists per capita commit crimes than believers? - is the question.

See you're doing too. Our friend Tempus used that argument to belittle Christian charitable works. Christians represent a larger % of the population in correlation to atheist therefore they should have more charitable works. Why doesn't this apply to your "per capita" argument about crimes. Atheists represent a smaller % of the population in correlation to Christians therefore they should commit less crimes. It goes both ways.

Whoa, whoa, I wasn't trying to belittle them. I was pointing out they were proportional.

(May 6, 2012 at 10:47 am)Abishalom Wrote: See you're doing too. Our friend Tempus used that argument to belittle Christian charitable works. Christians represent a larger % of the population in correlation to atheist therefore they should have more charitable works. Why doesn't this apply to your "per capita" argument about crimes. Atheists represent a smaller % of the population in correlation to Christians therefore they should commit less crimes. It goes both ways.

Shouldn't the whole point be that Christians, who supposedly have this magical "peace that passeth all understanding," be the exteme minority in prisons. I mean, even if you outnumber atheists 10 to 1, shouldn't you thiests be setting a MUCH better example?? After all, you've got that Holy Spirit parasite riding along with you throughout your day. How the fuck are you committing crimes with that kind of "peace?"

It isn't real, and it is primarily Christians who have proven that Christianity isn't real century after century.

(May 6, 2012 at 10:47 am)Napoleon Wrote: No true scotsman fallacy. The catholic church are christians are they not?

Your point is mute.

It's not a fallacy when said group (Catholic commits acts that are not acceptable to in said group's religious text (the bible). I guess you blatantly ignored the FACT that the Bible was BANNED and nobody could translate into English for many centuries. I'm sure the bible told them to do that. Or how about this one...Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot were atheists, were they not? So it goes both ways.

Quote:Fact of the matter is people were killed in the name of christianity. It's also funny you say that I'm confusing the deeds of the catholic church with religion as a whole, as though that somehow takes weight away from my argument?

All I can say is that they bible speak out blatantly against oppression and such evils as were committed by the Catholic church in those times. But either way I'm not even a Catholic (nor have I ever been) so this is a moot point.

Quote:It is also a good point, that "religion as a whole" has been detrimental to the human race. So thanks for helping raise that.

Right...

Quote:The teachings of the bible or of christianity are of no consequence. If people will murder in its name then you cannot discount christianity itself as one of the primary causes for this.

Ok I get it...so if someone commits said acts and identifies himself with said group it is the groups fault for the individual actions even if said group does not teach such aberrations. So then we should blame atheism for these people...
http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-peopl...-bad-name/

Quote:"How many of these people do you suppose were atheist"

AS THOUGH IT FUCKING MATTERS?

Right I'm sure it doesn't matter to you so long as you can make blanket statements to support your fallacious claims. So the claim I mentioned above must only apply to Christians...I get it.

Quote:All those people I listed there died or were oppressed regardless of what fucking label you wish to put on them. It is YOU who wishes to place these such labels not me.

You're the one claiming atheist had it so bad. Now you want to run away from your statement (typical).

Quote:I am telling you in no uncertain terms, and with clear evidence to back it up, that MILLIONS of people, regardless of who they are, have died in the name of not just christianity, but religion.

Yes millions of peopled died. But that was not your claim. Your claim singles out ATHEISTS. We're not talking about everybody. A good proportion of those people were Christian believers (but you cannot claim those).

Quote:Yet you are sitting there and the exception you take is whether they were atheist or not?

If you make a claim, then you better be able to actually back it up. Obviously you cannot.

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(May 6, 2012 at 10:49 am)tobie Wrote: Abishalom: It frequently says in the bible that you should kill people who believe in no god, or don't believe in the same one as you, or even don't listen to a priest's judgement. For example:

Deuteronomy 17:12

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the Lord your God must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 17:2-5

Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the Lord your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.

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Well the first verse is speaking about accepting a judgement form the judge in matters of controversy.

As for the second one it is speaking about serving other gods. Now if you were aware about some of the evils practiced in the surrounding pagan religions you would understand the punishment. The heathen nations around Israel practiced human sacrifice to idols.

Quote:They do commit less crimes. I forget the exact statistics, but over 90% of the US prison population are theists.

Well I'm sure they do but that's beside the point.

(May 6, 2012 at 10:47 am)Abishalom Wrote:

(May 6, 2012 at 10:39 am)Paul the Human Wrote: The term is "Per Capita". Do more atheists per capita commit crimes than believers? - is the question.

See you're doing too. Our friend Tempus used that argument to belittle Christian charitable works. Christians represent a larger % of the population in correlation to atheist therefore they should have more charitable works. Why doesn't this apply to your "per capita" argument about crimes. Atheists represent a smaller % of the population in correlation to Christians therefore they should commit less crimes. It goes both ways.

I'm not defending anything, nor putting forth an argument. I'm informing you that the term both of you were looking for was "per capita". You both kept describing it, so I told you what to call it. And it is an incredibly important thing to consider if you want to compare two segments of the population in any significant way.

Abishalom Wrote:It's not a fallacy when said group (Catholic) commits acts that are not acceptable to in said group's religious text (the bible). I guess you blatantly ignored the FACT that the Bible was BANNED and nobody could translate into English for many centuries. I'm sure the bible told them to do that. Or how about this one...Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot were atheists, were they not? So it goes both ways.

The bible advocates acts that are far worse than what the catholic church has ever done.

Yes, Mao and Pol Pot were atheists ( Stalin wasn't) but atheists claim no moral authority. We have no book telling us how to live our life. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods, so killing fuck loads of people doesn't go against atheism, but it does go against christianity.

(May 6, 2012 at 11:01 am)Cinjin Wrote: Shouldn't the whole point be that Christians, who supposedly have this magical "peace that passeth all understanding," be the exteme minority in prisons. I mean, even if you outnumber atheists 10 to 1, shouldn't you thiests be setting a MUCH better example?? After all, you've got that Holy Spirit parasite riding along with you throughout your day. How the fuck are you committing crimes with that kind of "peace?"

It isn't real, and it is primarily Christians who have proven that Christianity isn't real century after century.

What do Christians committing crimes or being in jail have to do with Christianity? Does an atheist committing a crime or going to jail make you reconsider being an atheist? I mean you are putting forth unrealistic expectations. We are all humans, and people are going to do what they want to.

(May 6, 2012 at 10:15 am)Abishalom Wrote: Yeah I see where you're coming from. It's like when the atheist claims that atheists are less like to commit a crime. Well when you compare their proportion to the society they live in, one would expect that number to be lower...wouldn't we?

That number is given in comparative percentages, so no, your argument doesn't stand. Atheists comprise of about 9-15% of general population of your country and less than 1% of the prison population. The comparison is not based on percentage of atheists in prison vs percentage of theists, it is based on comparison of percentage in prison vs percentage outside.

(May 6, 2012 at 11:30 am)tobie Wrote:

Abishalom Wrote:It's not a fallacy when said group (Catholic) commits acts that are not acceptable to in said group's religious text (the bible). I guess you blatantly ignored the FACT that the Bible was BANNED and nobody could translate into English for many centuries. I'm sure the bible told them to do that. Or how about this one...Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot were atheists, were they not? So it goes both ways.

The bible advocates acts that are far worse than what the catholic church has ever done.

Yes, Mao and Pol Pot were atheists ( Stalin wasn't) but atheists claim no moral authority. We have no book telling us how to live our life. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods, so killing fuck loads of people doesn't go against atheism, but it does go against christianity.

SO let me get this right...Christians do wrong because the bible tells them to do wrong and atheists do wrong because of the individual and not atheism. That looks like a double standard to me. It is what it is though.