With my former religion tithe was up there with the ten commandments. 10% of all income if you're a good christian (tithing was tax deductible for the giver.) Speakers would sometimes mention if the issue of tithe came up, that you should always pay your tithe to the church even if you disagree with what the church leaders are doing with the money because when you give your money to the church God is in control with it an he knows what he's doing. Pretty ridiculous. Most people just wrote out a check once a week for 10% of their income plus some extra offerings.

(May 13, 2012 at 1:15 pm)Drich Wrote:

Quote:have you ever asked where the money goes?

You would not be a very good steward if you didn't.

Quote:it seems like such an obvious hustle, that i have to be missing something. i blindly pay 10% of my "gross" pay and don't ask questions? no ma'am.

A steward is someone who responsiable for something that belongs to another, in this case money. Which means he is responsiable for knowing where his master's money is going.

ok. so you gave me two answers, one including an awesome definition of a steward, yet neither answered the question of where the money goes. do i take from that, that you're content, leaving that in the hands of others?

---

(May 13, 2012 at 1:27 pm)libalchris Wrote: With my former religion tithe was up there with the ten commandments. 10% of all income if you're a good christian (tithing was tax deductible for the giver.) Speakers would sometimes mention if the issue of tithe came up, that you should always pay your tithe to the church even if you disagree with what the church leaders are doing with the money because when you give your money to the church God is in control with it an he knows what he's doing. Pretty ridiculous. Most people just wrote out a check once a week for 10% of their income plus some extra offerings.

(even if you disagree) that's already crazy, but then you said "plus some extra".

(May 13, 2012 at 1:20 pm)Rhythm Wrote: What use does the lord of the cosmos have for money,

"Money" is the greatest competing deity God has for the hearts and minds of all us. The fact that we can give away this other deity's essence shows we are not bound to it. So what does the Lord of all creation need with money? Nothing. So why does He ask for it? So you may know in whom you have given your heart.

Quote:and why would the representatives of such a being find themselves so strapped for cash?

Because God does not teach a prosperity gospel.

Quote: Why not worship in your homes?

you can but this does not mean their isn't still need outside of your home.

Quote: Surely a literalist so well read on the matter would be able to find ample "biblical support" for such a practice? A temple is a pretty pagan holdover for your religion to carry around.

Actually a temple is a nomadic Jewish hold over as the were instructed to build a "Holy tent" to worship God in, when the wandered the wilderness.

Quote:Tiny little gods needed houses, that's where they were and where they lived you see. Your's is everywhere (or so I'm told). Obviously these temples are built for men, not god.

Yes they still are.

Quote: But then one has to ask, why would we require an intermediary, isn't the whole point to have a personal relationship?

That is the end goal but having a building to worship in facilitates all of the minor steps that help one achieve that end goal.

Quote:Tithing is a fucking scam meant to support the business of religion, not the practice of religion.

"Maybe, it's a little bit of both, maybe these two things are happening at the exact same time."
-Forrest Gump.
He was talking about destiny verses the randomness of an unscripted life (hence box of chocolates) But that is a sound observation that applies here as well. We are commanded to give, to help us develop the relationship we all need to have, and the funds given in turn provide the atmosphere to allow us to foster said relationship.

God has only been around for 6,000 years, so he is still paying off his student loans. That's why he needs money.

(May 13, 2012 at 1:31 pm)jackman Wrote: ok. so you gave me two answers, one including an awesome definition of a steward, yet neither answered the question of where the money goes. do i take from that, that you're content, leaving that in the hands of others?

---

It goes where ever your church leadership says it goes. What i was saying is that a Good steward inquires where the money goes. A good church puts out quartly statements detailing every cent taken in verses what is spent.

I can not say where your church spends it's money, but i can tell you where mine does.

lol, Given 10% of your heart you mean?

Prosperity Churches disagree.

Drop to your knees on a crosswalk, the building is meaningless fluff, god will be there, god will hear you.

Yep, to house the ark of the covenant. This makes all of your churches cheap replicas- theme parks for the religious. I did mention that it was a business didn't I?

Glad to see we agree.

Oh, what minor steps do you figure wouldn't be facilitated with private worship in one's home? Minor steps like profit? Roger.

A little bit of both? At least you're honest. Excuse me if I would rather keep the two separate.

I'm reminded of a scene from "The Simpsons" where the priest is admonishing the congregation for not giving enough. He said "Remember people, it's 10% of your income. And that means GROSS. Don't make us do audits!"

But, seriously, I already pay about 12% of my income to the federal govenment, 4% to the state government, 6% to Social Security, plus an additional 8% to property taxes. this adds up to 30%. And if I belonged to a church they would expect me to give them another 10%? Fuck that!

I had a dimbulb secretary who was always complaining about not having any money. But she always found a way to give the church a nice chunk every week. If I was having money troubles the first thing that would go would be the weekly church offering!

(May 13, 2012 at 1:42 pm)Drich Wrote:

(May 13, 2012 at 1:31 pm)jackman Wrote: ok. so you gave me two answers, one including an awesome definition of a steward, yet neither answered the question of where the money goes. do i take from that, that you're content, leaving that in the hands of others?

---

It goes where ever your church leadership says it goes. What i was saying is that a Good steward inquires where the money goes. A good church puts out quartly statements detailing every cent taken in verses what is spent.

I can not say where your church spends it's money, but i can tell you where mine does.

i assume those quarterly statements explain how much the pastor's mortgage and car notes are then (in the cases where that is what's happening)? also fyi, if you could tell me how "my" church spends it's money, then YOU, may well be god.

(May 13, 2012 at 1:42 pm)Drich Wrote: A good church puts out quartly statements detailing every cent taken in verses what is spent.

I can not say where your church spends it's money, but i can tell you where mine does.

Considering that churches are tax exempt, they don't have to account for anything. Who's to say they're not skimming money and underreporting what they take in?

Oh, that's right... priests are "men of god". They'll bugger little boys but they'll be absolutely honest when accounting for money.

(May 13, 2012 at 1:48 pm)Rhythm Wrote: lol, Given 10% of your heart you mean?

10% is an OT number given to the Jews. All NT examples often show that a believer gives everything. (Find/See a Need and fill that need no matter the cost)

Quote:Prosperity Churches disagree.

Biblically based ones do not.

Quote:Oh, what minor steps do you figure wouldn't be facilitated with private worship in one's home?

If I invited you to goto church with me and you accepted, where would you feel most comfortable going? to my house where it was me and you, or would you rather goto somewhere that had a more official feel and purpose?

Quote:Minor steps like profit?

Minor steps like, formal study, formal worship and formal organized opportunities to serve, Fellowship with a group of like minded believers.

People have it programmed into them from a very early age that "church" is this refined process housed in a very specific building, and it takes a while to make the transition from formal worship to full on relationship.

Quote:A little bit of both? At least you're honest. Excuse me if I would rather keep the two separate.

You can try, but 2000+ years of church history has failed at least for those new in the faith.