Quote:Past military prowess does not make all turks better than everyone else.

For the last time. This is not about military prowess. It's about strength of will, friend.
One needs a strong strength of will to establish a long-standing presence everyhwere one goes.

Quote: It is not you who has done these things, it is your ancestors.

Therefore it is these things we must strive to be worthy of.

Quote:Sure, it may be impressive, but it is not grounds for your asserted superiority.

Well, beyond being impressive, it establishes the grounds for our superiority. We're direct descendants of those who have performed these deeds. Their superiority as a people, are our superiority.
I don't know what is so hard to grasp about this.

Quote:Your ancestors deeds have no bearing on what you may do today.

On the contrary, they do. I act on their accumulative knowledge. I try to stay clear of their mistakes, and repeat their success. I believe it is only fair and rational if I do this. Without it, no progress would be made.

Quote:For generations before me, my family were staunch catholics, yet I am an atheist.

Your religious affiliation is really irrelevant when it comes to the topic of racial superiority.

Lol. Sorry, Mehmet, but the human genome project dispproved the notion of any racial superiority. Even if there are minimal difference between races, they are easily and often vastly outweighed by economic conditions, leadership, and personal determination. No single group of humans has been isolated for long enough to evolve to be genetically superior or inferior to the others.

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Hu...ties.shtml

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You have delusions of grandeur regarding your country. It is a country like any other. If the people in it are on average any better or worse than anywhere else, it is a result of constantly shifting economic conditions and technological advancement. Some day, I have no doubt, America will be as shitty as Turkey, just as Persia (Iran) was once a world power, just as China was once the most advanced country in the world, went through a dry spell, and is now rapidly gaining power.
Individual effort helps a country, but race is of no consequence, and far more important than either are socioeconomic and political variables which can't be tracked, controlled, or predictably influenced. (Such as sudden advances in technology, political party deadlock, resource shortages, etc.)

(May 17, 2012 at 1:37 pm)Annik Wrote:

(May 17, 2012 at 7:14 am)Mosrhun Wrote: Without sounding vain, I seem to have the ability to persuade almost anyone into liking me. I don't know how it happens, it just does. I will pretend to enjoy the company of most, but wouldn't even care if they ceased to exist. As I've said before, I have somewhat sociopathic tendencies in that respect. I honestly couldn't say that I would even cry if my mother died. It's not that I don't love her, it's just I don't really feel emotion too well.

Seems to be like you're just incredibly meta.



And lol @ Mehmet not understanding how consciousness and personality are formed.

Not sure what you mean by meta. Not familiar with that term.

(May 17, 2012 at 8:11 pm)Mosrhun Wrote: Not sure what you mean by meta. Not familiar with that term.

In this context, you know the rules of the social game, so you can exploit them how you wish. So you know how to get people to like you, so people will like you. So meta, bro.

(May 14, 2012 at 2:11 pm)Annik Wrote: Atheists are miserable.

I hear this a lot from the religious. They like to claim that we're some kind of empty shells that just sloth around without some kind of religion to motivate us. I have depression and anxiety (Thanks, Momma! <3 ), but I have to say that it's much easier to overcome now. I've never felt so happy, alive and free.

I'm late to the party, but regarding the OP:

After I left Christianity I never again suffered from depression, anxiety or absolute misery the way I did when I was serving their self-absorbed dictator. That says more to me than anything else.

(May 16, 2012 at 8:01 pm)BethK Wrote: Going back to the base of this thread, yeah, we hear all the time about how "miserable" atheists are, filled with anger and hatred (toward God?). It's like they think disbelieving fairy tales that lack any sort of objective evidence is some sort of mental illness.

Yes, some atheists are miserable. We are miserable for all sorts of reasons - war and poverty, health problems (including pain). We have depression, anxiety, psychosis, PTSD, and many other mental and emotional issues. We have people, places, and pets we love, and we lose these, and we grieve like anyone else. However, we deal with these problems head-on - the issue or problem is what it is, there is no sugar daddy in the sky who will make it all better. We will never see a deceased loved one again. God won't solve poverty - but some kinds of actions can help relieve it - getting a job, or getting assistance from other people. God won't heal our diseases or injuries, but medical science may be able to heal the disease/injury, or may be able to alleviate some of the suffering involved with it. God won't stop our lonliness, but finding other people to do things with and/or talk to will stop lonliness. Those people do not have to be in a church.

We can enjoy our day-to-day lives as much as anyone. We may have family or friends we are meaning something to in those daily lives. We may be doing things that please ourselves. We can do things to help our communities.... or do things to hurt our communities and/or people in it (e.g., crime). We'll tend to reap what we sow, whether it is from some religious teaching or our mundane reputation or credit rating.

In a couple hundred years, very few of us will be remembered for anything. Even if we've had children, how much does any of us know of our ancestors who were born around 1800? Not much - most of us don't even know their names. Having children won't help that. A few people do things that we know about for much longer, but that won't last forever. Sooner or later, humankind will be extinct. For that matter, in the very long term, the universe will not exist in its present form - "big crunch" or the sun burning out. WHO will any of this have any "meaning" in the very long term? Without a God, a universal observer, there is no one to have any "meaning".

Things do not always have a big, cosmelogical meaning. What is the meaning of my wearing a yellow dress today, in the long haul? What is the huge meaning behind my eating macaroni today? Sometimes things are just what they seem to be, and don't have any particular meaning or represent anything beyond what they are. I am not so egotistical to believe that I, personally, will have any larger "meaning", or will make any huge difference in the universe. Granted, some people do make a bigger difference on more, for good or bad, but those are barely remembered at all in a couple of thousand years - NOTHING in the 13 billion years or so the universe has existed. Anything on this planet is inconsequential on the probably 1 octillian or so planets in the Milky Way.

That doesn't stop me from doing things for my friends, family, and community. I don't need to be the center of attention for "God" either. If God exists, he'd have a lot more to worry about than what, precisely, I'm thinking about or reading.

(May 14, 2012 at 2:11 pm)Annik Wrote: Atheists are miserable.

I hear this a lot from the religious. They like to claim that we're some kind of empty shells that just sloth around without some kind of religion to motivate us. I have depression and anxiety (Thanks, Momma! <3 ), but I have to say that it's much easier to overcome now. I've never felt so happy, alive and free.

Absolutely and well said. We have the opportunity to build our lives toward our own higher purpose. Create and enjoy and be fulfilled as much as you can as often as you can. We are here one way or the other, so we might as well enjoy it and help one another along the way.

There's a real beauty to that I think.

BethK Wrote:"big crunch"

This is a very small quibble, but I just wanted to point out that cosmologists have determined that the universe will ultimately end through heat death, not a big crunch. This lecture by Lawrence Krauss discusses this topic and many other very interesting things; definitely worth a watch if you've an hour to kill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

(May 17, 2012 at 8:03 pm)Aegrus Wrote: Lol. Sorry, Mehmet, but the human genome project dispproved the notion of any racial superiority. Even if there are minimal difference between races, they are easily and often vastly outweighed by economic conditions, leadership, and personal determination. No single group of humans has been isolated for long enough to evolve to be genetically superior or inferior to the others.

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Hu...ties.shtml

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You have delusions of grandeur regarding your country. It is a country like any other. If the people in it are on average any better or worse than anywhere else, it is a result of constantly shifting economic conditions and technological advancement. Some day, I have no doubt, America will be as shitty as Turkey, just as Persia (Iran) was once a world power, just as China was once the most advanced country in the world, went through a dry spell, and is now rapidly gaining power.
Individual effort helps a country, but race is of no consequence, and far more important than either are socioeconomic and political variables which can't be tracked, controlled, or predictably influenced. (Such as sudden advances in technology, political party deadlock, resource shortages, etc.)

Country, country country...I do not deal in borders, friend. Our current borders are not our real borders. Once we reach our real borders, archiving unification, our strength will be visible for everyone to see. Then we shall prove our superiority to the world, if they still require proof.
America is already a shitty country. It always was. It kept itself alive by constantly attracting skilled immigrants from Europe, and uses less qualified people like Mexicans and Blacks as slave labour still(back then, it was the Irish who fulfilled that role).
Similarly, our superiority is not just in our genetics. Cultural and moral superiority directly reflects to the people.
Besides, race is of real consequence. Each and every time a non-Turk assumed power in Turkey, it has gone downhill. The more the Ottoman sultans polluted their blood with the lewd bloodline of the greek, slav and circassian they have become more and more disinterested in government business, and were quick to depose at will. They had become toys at the hands of their mothers, and servants.
And look at Suleiman the Magnificent. Whose father was Selim the Grim, and whose mother was the daugther of the crimean Khan. A full blooded Turk. And how well he ruled over the country.
But the one who came in his stead, Selim the second, whose mother was an accursed ruthenian slave, later, freed and made the wife of the Sultan, was as worthless as a rusty nail, and were nothing more than a plaything of her sister and mother.

(May 18, 2012 at 12:27 am)Hovik Wrote:

BethK Wrote:"big crunch"

This is a very small quibble, but I just wanted to point out that cosmologists have determined that the universe will ultimately end through heat death, not a big crunch. This lecture by Lawrence Krauss discusses this topic and many other very interesting things; definitely worth a watch if you've an hour to kill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

String theorists have already advanced cyclic big crunch model of the universe that feature the currently observed properties of the accelerated expansion in the 3 observed dimensions. The big crunch doesn't have to come from contraction of the 3 observed dimension of the universe. It can comes from movement of the entire observed universe in one or more of the other 8 dimension thought for mathematical reasons to exist but beyond current ability to detect.

There have been a some recent observation which suggest the what has been taken to be the behavior of the visible portion of the universe does not represent behavior on a larger scale including portions currently beyond our visible light horizon. Or universe is non-homogenous even in the 3 diemnsion we observe on a scale larger than our visible horizon.

(May 18, 2012 at 5:03 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Country, country country...I do not deal in borders, friend. Our current borders are not our real borders. Once we reach our real borders, archiving unification, our strength will be visible for everyone to see. Then we shall prove our superiority to the world, if they still require proof.

If you reach your "real borders" you will still be a country, so what Aegrus said will still be valid. If you do not deal in borders, then why should your "real borders" be of any relevance?

Did you just choose to ignore the first point of Aegrus' post, that there is no genetic grounds for superiority?

Quote:Your religious affiliation is really irrelevant when it comes to the topic of racial superiority.

My point was that my genes have nothing, or very little, to do with the way I think, it is to do with how we are raised, and are environment when we are raised. You may have some similar genes to these historical figures, but it does not make all turks as talented as they are. There are far greater numbers of distinctly average turks.

If you were not raised in turkey, you probably wouldn't have any of these notions that you are superior. The fact that you do just means that you've been fed a lot a bullshit propaganda.