(May 25, 2012 at 2:29 pm)Cinjin Wrote:

(May 25, 2012 at 2:26 pm)NoMoreFaith Wrote: How are we defining Sin?

Disobedience to God? Killing Fig Trees? Setting Wild Animals on Children?

Whats the bar for sin in these parts?

Sin, as always, is anything that's in violation of god's written word. You believe in god, you believe in sin.

The question here is ... do you believe in sin if you do not believe in god and if so, why??

I don't believe in god, that's why I think Christianity is american republic's original sin, for which this country will go to hell if not properly repented.

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(May 27, 2012 at 2:37 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Becasue I really have seen the light

Great trick to see "light" with your head up your ass.

Not if it's up far enough to come out of his mouth.

(May 26, 2012 at 8:22 pm)ohh EPiC FAiL Wrote: Believe in this book because this book tells you to!! The god of the bible is real because this 3000 year old book says so!!!! Hahaha

Reminds me somehow of the paradoxical ..

"There are two misstakes in this sentence."

Likewise every word of the bible is true unless it isn't.

(May 27, 2012 at 9:53 am)whateverist Wrote:

(May 26, 2012 at 8:22 pm)ohh EPiC FAiL Wrote: Believe in this book because this book tells you to!! The god of the bible is real because this 3000 year old book says so!!!! Hahaha

Reminds me somehow of the paradoxical ..

"There are two misstakes in this sentence."

Likewise every word of the bible is true unless it isn't.

Yeah exactly. I honestly don't see how, with the technology and intelligence we have now, people can still believe in the bible and everything in it just because the bible says to. I can't believe in sin because I don't believe in the bible. Just like the Christians shouldn't, I don't pick and choose what parts of the bible to believe in.

(May 26, 2012 at 3:59 pm)Whistle Blower Wrote: The human condition is a complex one, and cannot fully be understood or lived properly unless it is with reference to The Creator whose image we are made in (Gen 1: 27).

We all have the ability to choose between right and wrong, God has
given us a conscience. I did many wrong things before becoming a Christian, some may seem trivial to others, some would be frowned upon by the morally upright, however my greatest sin was denying God's existence despite knowing that He is a reality.

Ps 14 "The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.
The Lord looks down from heaven on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God.
All have turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one."[/b]


At the core of the human condition for us all is sin and rebellion. We are all born into this condition due to the nature of the world which we live in which is hostile towards its Creator. However, it is only accepting God on His trems that we can right with Him in this life and eternally. What are His terms?

Acts 2: 38 " Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

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(May 26, 2012 at 3:02 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: to the forums #57

Thanks

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(May 26, 2012 at 7:33 am)Zen Badger Wrote: And your personal "revelation" is objective evidence that the whole Garden of Eden fairytale is true?

You can criticise my faith, my Saviour but you cannot criticise my experience. Why? Becasue I really have seen the light

As long as we have to listen to the same old song & dance - might as well actually see the song & dance ...





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(May 25, 2012 at 4:19 pm)Paul the Human Wrote: If there is no Christian god, then there is no such thing as sin. So, as I do not believe in one, I do not believe in the other. I can account for things such as murder and rape simply by knowing that people are animals which are driven by desire... and some people have very dark desires.

No gods required.

So if murder and rape, which are actions not to be done, according to the ten commandments, and of course your conscience, are to be done, can you really blame anyone for doing them? I mean, if that's their genetic programming, and their simply obeying their natural animal behavior patterns which came from lesser evolved primates, how can anyone say objectively that this is wrong, and not just by an opinionated standard?

(May 27, 2012 at 3:20 pm)ScienceLovesGod Wrote:

(May 25, 2012 at 4:19 pm)Paul the Human Wrote: If there is no Christian god, then there is no such thing as sin. So, as I do not believe in one, I do not believe in the other. I can account for things such as murder and rape simply by knowing that people are animals which are driven by desire... and some people have very dark desires.

No gods required.

So if murder and rape, which are actions not to be done, according to the ten commandments, and of course your conscience, are to be done, can you really blame anyone for doing them? I mean, if that's their genetic programming, and their simply obeying their natural animal behavior patterns which came from lesser evolved primates, how can anyone say objectively that this is wrong, and not just by an opinionated standard?

Civilized society can say that it's wrong. That's the rule of law. Laws exist for reasons (most of them). "Objectively wrong" has nothing to do with it.

(May 27, 2012 at 10:05 am)ohh EPiC FAiL Wrote:

(May 27, 2012 at 9:53 am)whateverist Wrote: Reminds me somehow of the paradoxical ..

"There are two misstakes in this sentence."

Likewise every word of the bible is true unless it isn't.

Yeah exactly. I honestly don't see how, with the technology and intelligence we have now, people can still believe in the bible and everything in it just because the bible says to. I can't believe in sin because I don't believe in the bible. Just like the Christians shouldn't, I don't pick and choose what parts of the bible to believe in.

Prov 3: 13 - 15 "Blessed are those who find wisdom, those who gain understanding, for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold. She is more precious than rubies; nothing you desire can compare with her."

Technology and intelligence fail us with our dying breaths. They have value only when we are alive, but were never meant to supercede the Creator or His Word who is eternal.

Death comes to us all, the bible which you choose to disregard teaches that we will live on beyond this life either with or without God, but we will be eternally aware of where we are and why!

Ps 90: 10 - 12 " Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures, yet the best of them are but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away. If only we knew the power of your anger! Your wrath is as great as the fear that is your due. Teach us to number our days, that we may gain a heart of wisdom."

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(May 27, 2012 at 3:27 pm)Paul the Human Wrote:

(May 27, 2012 at 3:20 pm)ScienceLovesGod Wrote: So if murder and rape, which are actions not to be done, according to the ten commandments, and of course your conscience, are to be done, can you really blame anyone for doing them? I mean, if that's their genetic programming, and their simply obeying their natural animal behavior patterns which came from lesser evolved primates, how can anyone say objectively that this is wrong, and not just by an opinionated standard?

Civilized society can say that it's wrong. That's the rule of law. Laws exist for reasons (most of them). "Objectively wrong" has nothing to do with it.

Societies laws are based on the 10 commandments

(May 27, 2012 at 3:27 pm)Paul the Human Wrote:

(May 27, 2012 at 3:20 pm)ScienceLovesGod Wrote: So if murder and rape, which are actions not to be done, according to the ten commandments, and of course your conscience, are to be done, can you really blame anyone for doing them? I mean, if that's their genetic programming, and their simply obeying their natural animal behavior patterns which came from lesser evolved primates, how can anyone say objectively that this is wrong, and not just by an opinionated standard?

Civilized society can say that it's wrong. That's the rule of law. Laws exist for reasons (most of them). "Objectively wrong" has nothing to do with it.

What a minute, not so fast. No one can say murder and rape is objectively wrong, is that what you're telling me? All one can do is state their personal opinion influenced to them by others in a society? Hmm...

(May 27, 2012 at 3:20 pm)ScienceLovesGod Wrote:

(May 25, 2012 at 4:19 pm)Paul the Human Wrote: If there is no Christian god, then there is no such thing as sin. So, as I do not believe in one, I do not believe in the other. I can account for things such as murder and rape simply by knowing that people are animals which are driven by desire... and some people have very dark desires.

No gods required.

So if murder and rape, which are actions not to be done, according to the ten commandments, and of course your conscience, are to be done, can you really blame anyone for doing them? I mean, if that's their genetic programming, and their simply obeying their natural animal behavior patterns which came from lesser evolved primates, how can anyone say objectively that this is wrong, and not just by an opinionated standard?

There is no definite standard of right and wrong. What someone considers "wrong" is almost always something they wouldn't want to happen to themselves. Being able to empathise means you can have a sense of right and wrong. There is no definite objective standard of right and wrong, but most people can agree that certain things shouldn't be allowed.

The bible is an example of just this - a few people writing down what they feel shouldn't be allowed, not an objective moral standard handed down from god.

(May 27, 2012 at 3:39 pm)Tobie Wrote:

(May 27, 2012 at 3:20 pm)ScienceLovesGod Wrote: So if murder and rape, which are actions not to be done, according to the ten commandments, and of course your conscience, are to be done, can you really blame anyone for doing them? I mean, if that's their genetic programming, and their simply obeying their natural animal behavior patterns which came from lesser evolved primates, how can anyone say objectively that this is wrong, and not just by an opinionated standard?

There is no definite standard of right and wrong. What someone considers "wrong" is almost always something they wouldn't want to happen to themselves. Being able to empathise means you can have a sense of right and wrong. There is no definite objective standard of right and wrong, but most people can agree that certain things shouldn't be allowed.

The bible is an example of just this - a few people writing down what they feel shouldn't be allowed, not an objective moral standard handed down from god.

If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
Surely, there are actions most people agree on that are to be considered wrong. But let's say hypothetically if the entire world liked murder, and for some twisted reason everyone liked being murdered, then would those actions of murder be wrong?