How about the paradox between omnipotence and omniscience?

An omniscient god knows everything. Therefore he can never change his mind, have a new idea, be surprised etc.

However, if he is also omnipotent he can do anything including these things. If he cannot do these things he is not omnipotent and yet if he can then he can't be omniscient.

Either/or but not both.

Darwinian, you will simply get that; "We" as humans cannot understand/fathom what "God" is thinking, how "He" is, etc. etc. etc.

That our mere little minds can't compute it or figure it out......

Very popular come back from most thumpers....... (Notice I said most, not all).....

I predict your words will come to pass..

Welcome to the forums. I'll enjoy watching you get slaughtered by our resident thinkers.

(August 30, 2009 at 1:29 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote:

(August 30, 2009 at 1:24 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(August 30, 2009 at 1:17 pm)Samson Wrote: I personally do not believe Science will be able to prove there is no god, just as much as the religious in trying to prove there is...

Idiots try to prove the existence of God. Religion specifically states that there can't be verifiable proof

But that religion states it as so doesn't mean it is correct.

Kyu

Well as it's them you're pulling up, and their belief you're addressing, I'd personally think it wasn't up to you, unless you have some belief you're not telling us about??

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(August 30, 2009 at 1:37 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Religion specifically states that there can't be verifiable proof.

Again, how convenient for the guy who has no proof.

LOL at the blind ignorance in your statement

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(August 30, 2009 at 1:39 pm)Darwinian Wrote: How about the paradox between omnipotence and omniscience?

An omniscient god knows everything. Therefore he can never change his mind, have a new idea, be surprised etc.

However, if he is also omnipotent he can do anything including these things. If he cannot do these things he is not omnipotent and yet if he can then he can't be omniscient.

Either/or but not both.

Who's that aimed at Darwinian? Of course I've said before.. you're assuming a deity existant in time to make that stick. As the Christian God is understood/ defined to exist outside of time, that doeasn't apply.

Quote:LOL at the blind ignorance in your statement Biggrin

I notice that you still have no proof...or even evidence.

Assertions of your sky-daddy are not convincing, lad.

erm...

(August 30, 2009 at 2:11 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(August 30, 2009 at 1:39 pm)Darwinian Wrote: How about the paradox between omnipotence and omniscience?

An omniscient god knows everything. Therefore he can never change his mind, have a new idea, be surprised etc.

However, if he is also omnipotent he can do anything including these things. If he cannot do these things he is not omnipotent and yet if he can then he can't be omniscient.

Either/or but not both.

Who's that aimed at Darwinian? Of course I've said before.. you're assuming a deity existant in time to make that stick. As the Christian God is understood/ defined to exist outside of time, that doeasn't apply.

That was aimed at anyone, even you.

I was assuming an entity that exists within the known laws of reality as beyond these is outside our understanding and therefore any prediction concerning this hyperthetical realm, including your 'that doesn't apply' statement is unknowable.

(August 30, 2009 at 1:39 pm)Darwinian Wrote: How about the paradox between omnipotence and omniscience?

An omniscient god knows everything. Therefore he can never change his mind, have a new idea, be surprised etc.

However, if he is also omnipotent he can do anything including these things. If he cannot do these things he is not omnipotent and yet if he can then he can't be omniscient.

Either/or but not both.

Indeed, not both. Also, an omniscient being knows everything, and therefore it can't be wrong, or surprised. However, the christian god is very often surprised, or dead wrong, and therefore is not omniscient.

Omnipotence and all-powerfulness are separated by a very small line (completely culturally). Linguistically, they are about the same. Most arguments against all-powerfulness can be usually applied to omnipotence.

(August 30, 2009 at 2:24 pm)Darwinian Wrote: [quote='fr0d0' pid='29095' dateline='1251655908']
I was assuming an entity that exists within the known laws of reality as beyond these is outside our understanding and therefore any prediction concerning this hyperthetical realm, including your 'that doesn't apply' statement is unknowable.

Well that isn't my God then. To Christians the realm isn't hypothetical. From logic we deduce a few things.

From the Summa:
"We cannot know what God is, but only what He is not. So to study Him, we study what He has not -- such as composition and motion."