elunico13 Wrote:What do you think about mine?

It's pretty sweet, but I think it needs some revisions. Allow me to dictate a more accurate version.

Blind Faith - Believing that a magical, eternal paradise awaits you when your biological functions cease to operate, on the condition that you acknowledge that god impregnated a virgin to give birth to his son, who was also himself, all with the intention of getting violently nailed to cross and ressurecting himself three days later.

(May 28, 2012 at 2:36 am)elunico13 Wrote:

(May 28, 2012 at 2:02 am)genkaus Wrote: I won't ask you about thinking logically because.. well, you don't.

I started where you wanted to but you couldn't hold yourself to the same standard. Atheism can't account for standards even though you try to impose them on others. Intolerant

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(May 28, 2012 at 2:28 am)ScienceLovesGod Wrote: I used "spacesuits" as a metaphor for our bodies, because technically we are in space.

"stupidly assembled" means these bodies were "assembled" without an intelligent assembler.

"by no other reason than to produce.." is based on natural selection, in which species of the "fittest" will reproduce more effectively, according to their surroundings. It seems the reason why there is cognitive life is to continue to create more of the same species, then there is a positive mutation in the DNA, and then the altered life-form will continue to do the same thing until the universe burns up, "that will eventually cease to exist", due to the entropy of the universe.

Get it?

It sure shows how illogical evolution is. Keep the sig! What do you think about mine?

awesome quote, man.

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(May 28, 2012 at 12:22 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Cold-blooded murder is wrong. This is not my opinion, this is a fact of life.

In the middle ages your supposedly heroically xtian knights were able to slaughter the commons at will. But it wasn't only xtians, Japanese Samurai had the same "rights."

For that matter, your church and you churchie bastards are among the most grievous of cold-blooded murderers history has ever shown us, especially when you were trying to force people to believe in your stupid god.

Try again.

I can't believe you are trying to prove that what Jesus taught and the "religion" based upon it has anything to do with what some "Christians" did a long time ago. And you use these murdering actions to support the disbelief in God. Oh, I'm sorry, more evidence in the support of the lack of belief of God based on the lack of evidence.

That's like saying you don't believe in the person who invented baseball because there was a lot of baseball players in the past that cheated.

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(May 28, 2012 at 12:37 pm)Ace Otana Wrote:

The church saw nothing wrong in torture or murder.

That doesn't prove what Jesus taught, which is the basis of Christianity, is wrong and illogical.

(May 28, 2012 at 7:46 pm)ScienceLovesGod Wrote:

(May 28, 2012 at 12:37 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: The church saw nothing wrong in torture or murder.

That doesn't prove what Jesus taught, which is the basis of Christianity, is wrong and illogical.

Perhaps not and I don't believe Ace was trying to make that point; however it does illustrate that what Jesus is held to have 'taught' can be transposed so comprehensibly into a tool for socio-political control. That mutability in itself ought to render those 'teachings' dubious. Put another way: religion in general, and organised religion in particular, makes a great umbrella for the psychopath.

Speaking of “sin”, I’ve always been curious as to who conceived the notion of sin. I don’t mean the supposed “original sin” purportedly committed by Adam and Eve, I mean who came up with the idea that certain acts were an offence to a god? It would seem to me that if “sin” is just another concept stolen by Christians to incorporate into their religion, then the foundations of Christianity crumble, because isn’t that what “salvation” is all about? Although I suppose that Christians would claim that even if the concept of sin was borrowed from prior religions, that would only mean that prior religions had the concept right, but were just applying to it to the wrong god.

(May 30, 2012 at 1:06 pm)Strongbad Wrote: Speaking of “sin”, I’ve always been curious as to who conceived the notion of sin. I don’t mean the supposed “original sin” purportedly committed by Adam and Eve, I mean who came up with the idea that certain acts were an offence to a god? It would seem to me that if “sin” is just another concept stolen by Christians to incorporate into their religion, then the foundations of Christianity crumble, because isn’t that what “salvation” is all about? Although I suppose that Christians would claim that even if the concept of sin was borrowed from prior religions, that would only mean that prior religions had the concept right, but were just applying to it to the wrong god.

The word seems peculiar to Christianity but the more general notion of taboo is wider spread. Prohibitions rooted in culture and religion are probably everywhere. Besides being the version present in the culture most of us grew up in it is hard to see just what makes sin special.

Lets see .. well sin we're told is universal. It is only expunged by a single instance of human sacrifice. Apparently we are created sinful and cannot free ourselves of sin by our own efforts. However we can be forgiven for sin by the very being who created us to be sinful by nature.

Don't hesitate to correct me if I have any of this wrong. I have only a sense of what anything biblical is about.

(May 30, 2012 at 2:17 pm)whateverist Wrote:

(May 30, 2012 at 1:06 pm)Strongbad Wrote: Speaking of “sin”, I’ve always been curious as to who conceived the notion of sin. I don’t mean the supposed “original sin” purportedly committed by Adam and Eve, I mean who came up with the idea that certain acts were an offence to a god? It would seem to me that if “sin” is just another concept stolen by Christians to incorporate into their religion, then the foundations of Christianity crumble, because isn’t that what “salvation” is all about? Although I suppose that Christians would claim that even if the concept of sin was borrowed from prior religions, that would only mean that prior religions had the concept right, but were just applying to it to the wrong god.

The word seems peculiar to Christianity but the more general notion of taboo is wider spread. Prohibitions rooted in culture and religion are probably everywhere. Besides being the version present in the culture most of us grew up in it is hard to see just what makes sin special.

Lets see .. well sin we're told is universal. It is only expunged by a single instance of human sacrifice. Apparently we are created sinful and cannot free ourselves of sin by our own efforts. However we can be forgiven for sin by the very being who created us to be sinful by nature.

Don't hesitate to correct me if I have any of this wrong. I have only a sense of what anything biblical is about.

"However we can be forgiven for sin by the very being who created us to be sinful by nature."

I thought about explaining it myself, but this is a far better explanation by biblestudyplanet dot com:

It's important to understand that God did not create sin. God created a perfect moral standard and it was his creation - by going against that standard - that created sin. Another point that needs to be established is that God did not create us as sinful: "Truly, this only I have found: That God made man upright [without sin], But they have sought out many schemes." ECCLESIASTES 7:12. But God did create us with "free will". In other words, we were given the right to choose whether or not we would follow God's moral standard. That is what separates us from animals - which have to follow God. The problem is that all of us use our right to free will to rebel.

I thought I might add something as well. To have a choice between good and evil is not evil in itself, but when we have chosen evil, like when Even chose to eat the fruit, we have created a sin.

When Adam and Eve ate the fruit, it opened their eyes to the difference between good and evil. But can she even be guilty of sin if she didn't know the difference to begin with? God gave them only ONE law to live by. Pretty sweet, huh? Walk around naked with your wife in a beautiful garden, and have the ability to communicate with nature. Anyway, if you don't know about a law and you break it, are you guilty? No. They did know what to do and what would happen if they break it.

There's your answer in accordance with Scripture.

First you say this.

ScienceLovesGod Wrote:... but when we have chosen evil, like when Even chose to eat the fruit, we have created a sin.

Then you say this.

ScienceLovesGod Wrote:When Adam and Eve ate the fruit, it opened their eyes to the difference between good and evil.

If Adam and Eve had no understanding of good and evil, how did they choose evil by eating the fruit, and more importantly, why would god allow the consequences of this action to taint all of humanity when there was clearly no intent?

(May 30, 2012 at 6:46 pm)Faith No More Wrote: First you say this.

ScienceLovesGod Wrote:... but when we have chosen evil, like when Even chose to eat the fruit, we have created a sin.

Then you say this.

ScienceLovesGod Wrote:When Adam and Eve ate the fruit, it opened their eyes to the difference between good and evil.

If Adam and Eve had no understanding of good and evil, how did they choose evil by eating the fruit, and more importantly, why would god allow the consequences of this action to taint all of humanity when there was clearly no intent?

Because christians have been twisting and manipulating the stories and doctrines for so long that they can't keep their story straight .... and haven't been able to for centuries.

Factoid: Sheep are best when served on a plate and worn in a sweater.

(May 30, 2012 at 11:40 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Because christians have been twisting and manipulating the stories and doctrines for so long that they can't keep their story straight .... and haven't been able to for centuries.

Hell, when they can't even agree on what (a) god is, then you know they're screwed..

That's a very good point. If you don't even know what the character is supposed to be, all claims about what it can and can't do go straight down the pan. What makes it hilariously worse is that these same people will then take great delight in telling you what their god thinks.