(May 30, 2012 at 4:52 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: The Near Death Experience has been very well documented ever since Raymond Moody's release of "Life after Life". NDE's raise some of the most interesting questions about the nature of mind and strongly suggest the continuation of consciousness after physical death. Materialistic theories appear wholly inadequate in explaining all the various features of the process.

NDEs are simply the brain malfunctioning. This has already been explained. And even if they weren't, what about those who experience nothing?

I've experienced nothing every single time I went under the knife. Its wonderful. Eternal oblivion is so simple yet so profound. Far greater than any childish notion or fantasy of heaven or hell. If there is a god of everything and he really loves us to let us leave his wretched reality behind, I think it would gladly let us embrace the void of nothingness.

You do not need to be near death to experience NDE.
You just need some toluene.

(May 30, 2012 at 6:24 pm)aleialoura Wrote: What a bunch of crap.

I'd give you a hundred kudos for that if I could.

To dismiss the phenomena as malfunctioning is to assume you understand function. That also is a bias, Mr. Cake. My own bias does not come from theism, but from a rejection of eliminative materialism. We are not talking about typical delusions here. NDE survivor's describe it as being even more 'real' than regular life. I do not doubt that some features of NDE's relate to brain physics interacting with mental phenomena during extreme trauma etc. And I do not exclude the possibility that consciousness may continue only a for a while and dissipate with time. Proof of the afterlife, no. Suggestive, yes. But, I have yet to see a compelling solution to the Chalmers Hard Problem that excludes the possibility of an actual afterlife.

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(May 30, 2012 at 5:07 pm)Faith No More Wrote: And here is an article with several theories.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/experts01.html

And here is a quote from that link:
It is important to realize the fact that although the mechanism for the dying process in the brain can be quantified, this by no means proves that NDEs are merely a vision produced by the brain which ends upon permanent brain death. Science is unable to prove this because of the large amount of circumstantial evidence that consciousness can exist far removed from the body. In the same vein, science cannot prove that consciousness can survive death; however, research is underway right now that may provide scientific evidence that consciousness can exist outside of the body.

ChadWooters Wrote:But, I have yet to see a compelling solution to the Chalmers Hard Problem that excludes the possibility of an actual afterlife.

Does Chalmer go into detail projecting what an afterlife might be like? Or any philosophers?

If our consciousness is not bound to our physical body then where do we go? Would Aristotle's(?) thought experiment that suggests we can't know if we're actually 'asleep' right now be a possibility?

It occurs to me, that there are two options, given the experiences of NDE's.

Either ALL afterlife beliefs are true, or none of them are.

It's all very Terry Pratchett Discworld, the afterlife appears to be exactly what each person expects it to be based on their currently held belief.

I'd hold more stock in NDE's if more people came back saying "We've got it all wrong Guys, Thor's up there, and he's pissed".

I can't really see how an afterlife for us is even possible. To function without a brain, I can't see how it can happen.
As usual it's just wishful thinking from a fearful mind. People will always prefer a desirable/pleasurable lie than a cold hard truth.
Besides, what is the necessity of some afterlife outside human desire? Can anyone name a necessity? From nature's perspective?

God is such a great guy that he caused the child to be critically injured in the first place, just to receive a "gift". Seems legit.

Edit: I'd like to add that every time one of these kids supposedly goes to heaven, it's the parents that do all the talking.

(May 31, 2012 at 2:16 am)FallentoReason Wrote: Does Chalmer go into detail projecting what an afterlife might be like? Or any philosophers?

Details? Not unless you count Plato or Buddha. Penrose and Hameroff explore the continuation of consciousness in general terms.

(May 31, 2012 at 2:16 am)FallentoReason Wrote: If our consciousness is not bound to our physical body then where do we go?

Perhaps consciousness was never 'bound' to the physical body at all. I'm not convinced that consciousness is in the head so much as the head is the main point of intersection between our mental reality and physical one (to the extent that we consider them separate). From this perspective the brain/body is less like a computer and more like a radio. Each personality is defined by the specific frequency of a mental backdrop that it receives.

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(May 31, 2012 at 5:56 am)NoMoreFaith Wrote: ...the afterlife appears to be exactly what each person expects it to be based on their currently held belief.

Not necessarily. For religious people, the experience does seem to reflect their generally expectations; Christians see Jesus, Buddhists see a being of light, etc. But in some cases, atheists and non-believers have 'returned' to report similiar experiences. In a very few cases, including those of some believers, they describe going to hell. Either way NDE's profoundly affect the lives of those that have them, in ways not typical of delusions associated with mental illness.

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(May 31, 2012 at 6:11 am)Ace Otana Wrote: I can't really see how an afterlife for us is even possible. To function without a brain, I can't see how it can happen.

Logical fallacy: arguing from incredulity.

(May 31, 2012 at 8:11 am)ChadWooters Wrote:

(May 31, 2012 at 5:56 am)NoMoreFaith Wrote: ...the afterlife appears to be exactly what each person expects it to be based on their currently held belief.

Not necessarily. For religious people, the experience does seem to reflect their generally expectations; Christians see Jesus, Buddhists see a being of light, etc. But in some cases, atheists and non-believers have 'returned' to report similiar experiences. In a very few cases, including those of some believers, they describe going to hell. Either way NDE's profoundly affect the lives of those that have them, in ways not typical of delusions associated with mental illness.

Any of these atheists and non-believers come back with reports of the afterlife which are inconsistent with their knowledge of religions.

I would submit (because I don't have the data) that the vast majority, if not all of those cases refer to their common localised belief, as opposed to one they would have no knowledge of.