A commentary by Josiah Van Vliet, "Keep your Government hands off my Medicare" :

Quote:"This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school. After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department. And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right."

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(August 30, 2009 at 11:37 am)Minimalist Wrote: The "good old days" were "old"...not necessarily "good." Now, here is some more bad news. There is no going back to the old days. This is not the same country that it was in 1820. I suggest that you read some actual history because it is clear that you do not know what the hell you are talking about.

That reminds me of the episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit episode about the "Good Old Days". Good stuff.

(August 30, 2009 at 8:47 pm)dry land fish Wrote:

LukeMC Wrote:But she said "first class", so she probably means "we have the best healthcare facilities in the world for rich motherfuckers". Although I'm sure she doesn't need me to answer for her...

I'm not rich, I'm sure you aren't, and I am willing to bet that you have never had to have an operation or seek treatment in a roach infested office and have never been given a shot with a dirty needle. I've always gotten the same type of health care as every other American...that would be the best possible. How can anyone say only the rich get treated in this country. No one is denied medical services based on inability to pay. I'm obviously against a full on government ran healthcare system and I don't care about my medicare that I might get if I get old enough. I'm not even thinking it will even be available so my option is a savings plan to help fund my retirement. Not all of us anti public healthcare people are right wing nut jobs that are rich.

I think you missed the point I was making. I'm not making judgements on which of us are rich or poor. I was stating that if we're judging by the wealth of technology and facilities available in America, if you're rich you probably would be able to afford the best health care in the world. If you aren't rich, you're going to struggle to afford those facilities and coverage, and so the system lends itself to the USA being 37th in terms of health care, due to the distribution and availability of cover (or more appropriately, lack thereof) and the cost on the patients.

When Binny pointed out your comment on America's healthcare being the best in the world, I though she'd mischaracterised what you were trying to say. But judging by your response to me, you actually do think that in the general sense, so I was in error for trying to stick up for you. America's health care is not the best in world. It is 37th. But you can keep that debate between yourself and Saerules.

Also

Dry Land Fish Wrote:All kids get free immunizations if their parents can afford them.

This made me lol.

I love that show Bullshit. Anyway if the US has such great health care and is the best in the world, why did I go to doctors for 11 years about my low back pain only to get sent home with muscle relaxers and Vicodin (well I didn't mind the Vicodin so much)? No x-ray, no MRI, nothing to see what the real problem is. 11 years of back pain. Finally one quack Dr. decided to x-ray my back. Well shit my pants. I have a compressed disk in my lower back. Bad enough to show up on an x-ray. All these years these great fuck Dr.s told me it was muscular. They didn't even bother to look further. Now that I have an answer what did they do about it? Well basically nothing. I was sent to physical therapy, which my insurance didn't cover, and that was it. I'm still in pain. I finally decided to see a chiropractor. That has been quit helpful, but again my insurance doesn't cover that. I'm sure I'll be in pain all my life. Maybe surgery would help, who knows, but I'm sure CIGNA would call that a preexisting condition and not cover the surgery. This is truly great private health care in action.

The good ole days is a lie. Take a good American history course and you will see this. As soon as Alexander Hamilton introduced the first government run bank and caused buisness and government to sleep together in the same bed the republic was doomed. By the way, this happened when George Washington was still president.

(August 31, 2009 at 10:58 am)binny Wrote: I love that show Bullshit. Anyway if the US has such great health care and is the best in the world, why did I go to doctors for 11 years about my low back pain only to get sent home with muscle relaxers and Vicodin (well I didn't mind the Vicodin so much)? No x-ray, no MRI, nothing to see what the real problem is. 11 years of back pain. Finally one quack Dr. decided to x-ray my back. Well shit my pants. I have a compressed disk in my lower back. Bad enough to show up on an x-ray. All these years these great fuck Dr.s told me it was muscular. They didn't even bother to look further. Now that I have an answer what did they do about it? Well basically nothing. I was sent to physical therapy, which my insurance didn't cover, and that was it. I'm still in pain. I finally decided to see a chiropractor. That has been quit helpful, but again my insurance doesn't cover that. I'm sure I'll be in pain all my life. Maybe surgery would help, who knows, but I'm sure CIGNA would call that a preexisting condition and not cover the surgery. This is truly great private health care in action.

Ha I made a typo. I meant to say that people who can't afford immunizations can get free ones for their kids. I do not think our healthcare system is so bad in terms of the quality of care we get. Maybe you should have went to a different doctor Binny. I've been to some crappy doctors....but I meant that overall we are at the top considering our technology and the treatment available to us. No one can help that some doctors aren't as good as others. It takes a long time to find a doctor that someone likes.

You can't blame insurance companies for not allowing some treatments. They are there to make money and that's that. You know there are people that would wait until they were pregnant or had a heart attack to pick up insurance. That's not how the insurance game works when you are trying to make a profit. Bottom line is they do help even if they don't cover everything.

Where is the money going to come from for this government healthcare? Is it going to be "free" or are people who supposedly decide to participate going to be responsible for a co pay or a premium? How do they expect to raise the funds for this without raising taxes? Some people are talking about all medical care being covered and this includes cancer care. Does anyone realize how expensive some of this care is? Do we really have the money to cover every American plus aliens for every time they stump their toe and go see the doctor? What is going to prevent people from going when they don't need to go or going to the ER when it's a non emergency. Are the tax payers going to be responsible for those visits too? I mean....seriously...have any of you thought about where the money will come from for this?

(August 31, 2009 at 8:24 pm)dry land fish Wrote: You can't blame insurance companies for not allowing some treatments. They are there to make money and that's that. You know there are people that would wait until they were pregnant or had a heart attack to pick up insurance. That's not how the insurance game works when you are trying to make a profit.

That pretty much sums up my argument against private health insurance.

Quote:They are there to make money and that's that.

Which is the finest reason for why HEALTH CARE should not be a for-profit operation. [/quote]

(August 31, 2009 at 8:24 pm)dry land fish Wrote: Maybe you should have went to a different doctor Binny.

I saw several in 2 states.

(August 31, 2009 at 8:24 pm)dry land fish Wrote: You can't blame insurance companies for not allowing some treatments. They are there to make money and that's that.

And that is about as wrong as it can get. Health care should be non-profit!!! There is absolutely no reason for suits to be making money off of others misery. It is inhumane.

(August 31, 2009 at 8:24 pm)dry land fish Wrote: Where is the money going to come from for this government healthcare? Is it going to be "free" or are people who supposedly decide to participate going to be responsible for a co pay or a premium? How do they expect to raise the funds for this without raising taxes?

You have a lot of questions. Educate yourself about the issue, clearly you have not. The President has explained where the money will come from. He will not raise your taxes if you make less than $250,000.00 a year. I don't know about you, but I'm far from that. This link will clear up the misinformation if you open your mind and read it.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/s...therecord/

(September 1, 2009 at 11:57 am)binny Wrote: He will not raise your taxes if you make less than $250,000.00 a year

NO!!!! Not the rich people!!! Haven't they suffered enough??!!! Leave them alone so they can sail in their private yachts in peace and not have to worry about us unfortunate lot!! They shouldn't be made to pay for us, they earned their money fair and square!! They need every single penny of it for themselves to help them run their 8 bedroom mansion!! Their money doesn't grow on trees you know!! It grows in investments...

If the tip of a pyramid destroys its base: it too crumbles. Catering to the rich at the expense of its base destroys the rich. A pity that the rich do not often realize that.