Hahahaha Lucifer made Satan? So...there are two forces in your magical universe capable of creating something where nothing existed before?. Fantastic!

So, I'm going to have to ask, armed with this knowledge, how are we to determine what god created and what Lucifer created? Thanks though, for providing me with an example of yet another thing god didn't create, the list of your gods accomplishments gets smaller every passing day doesn't it?

(June 12, 2012 at 4:53 am)Epimethean Wrote: Did god create Lucifer with those tendencies?

No He did not, Lucifer had free will, Lucifer allowed his mind to conceive He could be greater than his Creator, Lucifer acted upon those wrong notions, and he is Satan with a bunch of fallen angels he has power over. God will ultimately destroy him, it was not God's will that Lucifer fall, it was Lucifer's will that caused him to fall, if Lucifer had done God's will none of this would have happened. You want to blame God for the way things turned out, it's Lucifer that you should blame. It's funny in a way and pitiful in others, atheist call christians stupid and deluded, yet we are the ones that are intelligent enough to know who to blame. Ourselves for falling to the great deceiver, the father of lies, Lucifer.

Did god create the power that he uses to hold sway over these fallen angels, or is that a credit to Satan as well? "God will ultimately destroy him, blah blah blah" Promises, promises. How's that battle coming along anyway?

Godschild Wrote:No He did not, Lucifer had free will, Lucifer allowed his mind to conceive He could be greater than his Creator, Lucifer acted upon those wrong notions, and he is Satan with a bunch of fallen angels he has power over. God will ultimately destroy him, it was not God's will that Lucifer fall, it was Lucifer's will that caused him to fall, if Lucifer had done God's will none of this would have happened. You want to blame God for the way things turned out, it's Lucifer that you should blame. It's funny in a way and pitiful in others, atheist call christians stupid and deluded, yet we are the ones that are intelligent enough to know who to blame. Ourselves for falling to the great deceiver, the father of lies, Lucifer.

How can god not shoulder the blame in this mess when one, he knew what Lucifer would do, and two, he had the power to stop it? Why is it that Lucifer's actions fall outside of God's divine plan when nothing else does?

Lol at the claim that you're intelligent enough to blame Lucifer. That's priceless.

(June 12, 2012 at 3:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: It's funny in a way and pitiful in others, atheist call christians stupid and deluded, yet we are the ones that are intelligent enough to know who to blame. Ourselves for falling to the great deceiver, the father of lies, Lucifer.

You done preaching?

Within the context of fiction, your idiot god is just as much responsible for the devil as Eru is for Melkor.

(June 12, 2012 at 3:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: No He did not, Lucifer had free will, Lucifer allowed his mind to conceive He could be greater than his Creator, Lucifer acted upon those wrong notions, and he is Satan with a bunch of fallen angels he has power over.

And Muhammad rode a winged horse up to heaven. It's the 21st century and we still have mind numbed people insisting that mythology is true.

Quote: God will ultimately destroy him

Well, what the fuck is he waiting for? People like you have been promising this for thousands of years! I hope you realize your credibility is kind of shot.

Quote:, it was not God's will that Lucifer fall, it was Lucifer's will that caused him to fall, if Lucifer had done God's will none of this would have happened.

But wasn't this all part of "God's plan"? Because no matter how horrible something is, believers are quick to trumpet that "everything happens for a reason" and "it's part of God's plan".

Quote:You want to blame God for the way things turned out,

Isn't this god the one who has unlimited power and omniscience? Which means he KNEW what would happen and he did nothing to stop it. So, yeah, I can blame him.

Quote: it's Lucifer that you should blame.

Actually, I don't blame imaginary beings for anything. That would be like blaming Santa Claus because I didn't get what I wanted for Christmas.

Quote:It's funny in a way and pitiful in others, atheist call christians stupid and deluded,

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily say you're stupid....

Quote:yet we are the ones that are intelligent enough to know who to blame.

And who should we blame?

Quote: Ourselves for falling to the great deceiver, the father of lies, Lucifer.

Sorry, never met the guy.

You guys have the same old tiring junk to repeat over and over, can't one of you come up with something different. So many of you use coarse language to hide the truth you do not know much about scriptures, why do you not study them, so the debates can be sensible.

(June 12, 2012 at 9:02 pm)Godschild Wrote: You guys have the same old tiring junk to repeat over and over

You mean unlike the same old, tired junk guys like you repeat over and over?

Quote:, can't one of you come up with something different.

Maybe when you come up with something different.

Quote: So many of you use coarse language to hide the truth you do not know much about scriptures,

Many atheists are more knowledgable of scripture than believers.

Quote: why do you not study them, so the debates can be sensible.

How can you have a sensible debate with someone who insists in the truthfulness of an ancient book that contains stories with talking animals, a virgin birth, people rising up from the dead, a man losing his strength because his hair was cut, etc, etc.....?

Quote:Do you recognize that God gains pleasure in creating evil?

Umm no,with not believing in God and all.


IF I believed in him: I think it goes without saying that YHWH of the Torah is a sadistic cunt. So yes he enjoys his cruelty ,like a nasty little boy going around killing small animals.

YHWH is EXACTLY what I'd expect from an insular, paranoid, tribe of bronze age goat fuckers. He reflects the society which invented him,as do all gods.

Regardless of anything else said here, I find it very obvious that the fictional character of the Bible that we label "God" is a sadist.

He reminds me of a child with a magnifying glass roasting ants, taking pleasure in their pain and death. If a child were to command ants to obey his will, and they continued to do evil by making their colony in a way that differed from the child's wishes, I think you could rightfully say that the child is delusional or has a mental illness. This is the God of the Bible.

Except it goes one step further in this case, because God created the world in which he has precidence over and still condemns us lower beings. Despite his capacity to create people with free will that would simply never do evil in their lives, he created a world of flawed individuals and allows evil thus. It's not technically free will if he creates people that he knew with his infinite foresight would simply never choose evil?


If God creates the world with omniscience, he is ultimately responcible for every single thing that occurs in his creation. That includes needless evil, death, famine, genetic flaws, needless slaughters, and natural evils like hurricane, tsunamis, and the predator/prey lifestyle of all living things.