In reality, long term in human evolution, a group, a tribe, or even a nation can get away with absolute power, for sever generations, but eventually the abuser who says "I know what is best for you, and I don't have to answer to you, and don't bite the hand that feeds you", eventually falls like an alpha male hippo who reaches old age and cannot fight the younger males any longer.

I defy any believer OF ANY RELIGION to name me one bad thing god has allowed that you would be willing to hold him to account for.

Now mind you, this is merely a thought experiment. I do not believe in ANY invisible friend. But just as a mental challenge to the believer to think without a hand up their backs.

For example, I have gotten lots of theist to admit, if they were God themselves, they WOULD NOT allow the nasty shit we observe in reality. To me that means that the believer has more morals than the god they claim.

MY POINT BEING, is that god claims explain nothing about nature or morality, AS CLAIMS, not as a provable reality.

In reality in the west in civil societies, WE VALUE holding our leaders to account. I find no morality in a CLAIM that postulates "I can do what I want and I don't owe you any explanation". Kim Jong Un says the same thing to his citizens. He feeds them too, not very well. Keeps all the glory for himself, cant be removed from office.

So unless the believer can name on bad thing they could charge god with a crime, either in direct or complicity, or neglect, it really makes the claim of a god absurd AND IMMORAL.

I am tired of the excuses "I can do what I want"
"I own you"
"You had a choice"
"I work in mysterious ways"
"I don't owe you an explanation"
"Obey me or else"
"It is your fault not mine"

And don't in this process of attempting to answer pull "You are saying humans are gods"

No, there is a third option.

"Humans are NOT gods and gods don't exist, humans merely make up gods"

Now again, I defy any believer to name me one thing they would be willing to hold their claimed god accountable for. You cant, and what is sick about that is that at the same time you hypocritically know you would not do it yourself if you were in the same position.

NOW AGAIN, this is a mental challenge to you, nothing more.

I'm taking bets on how long it takes Drich and GC to deflect this question with Bible verses and circular logic if anyones interested.

(July 13, 2012 at 4:54 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: I'm taking bets on how long it takes Drich and GC to deflect this question with Bible verses and circular logic if anyones interested.

If they have the balls to try and argue at all

(July 13, 2012 at 4:57 pm)Napoleon Wrote:

(July 13, 2012 at 4:54 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: I'm taking bets on how long it takes Drich and GC to deflect this question with Bible verses and circular logic if anyones interested.

If they have the balls to try and argue at all

Oh they'll argue, they'll just flood the thread with paragraphs of Bible quotes and presumptions about unrelated subjects that will inevitably change the subject of the thread meaning they won't have to answer it. If someone becomes insistent they should answer it and pins them down with logic they'll accuse them of being ignorant and not knowing enough about their religion to debate them without explaining the particulars of what they're ignorant of.
Which is basically a veiled retreat.

I'm thinking they'll carry out this shameless mockery of what a debate should be in under 6-7 hours.
Whoever makes a guess closest to when they actually do it wins.

(July 13, 2012 at 5:04 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: I'm thinking they'll carry out this shameless mockery of what a debate should be in under 6-7 hours.
Whoever makes a guess closest to when they actually do it wins.

My guess is any time more than 7 hours. Let me know when I receive my prize

If I were god I wouldn't do what God does? Then I will either not be like god or god isn't god.
We should hold god accountable for everything. We perceive death and suffering from our limited perspective, and we don't agree that this can be justice. If we were truly god, who is just, we could see that justice, and our objection would be removed.

(July 13, 2012 at 6:15 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: If I were god I wouldn't do what God does? Then I will either not be like god or god isn't god.
We should hold god accountable for everything. We perceive death and suffering from our limited perspective, and we don't agree that this can be justice. If we were truly god, who is just, we could see that justice, and our objection would be removed.

What makes you say he is just?

(July 13, 2012 at 6:15 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: If I were god I wouldn't do what God does? Then I will either not be like god or god isn't god.
We should hold god accountable for everything. We perceive death and suffering from our limited perspective, and we don't agree that this can be justice. If we were truly god, who is just, we could see that justice, and our objection would be removed.

Huh, not sure what you are arguing here. It seems to be "We don't know what he knows"

So? Unless we are toys or lab rats, an explanation would be in order. And if the limited(human) vs the (unlimited) god is the argument, then that can only make this claim corrupt by the obvious conclusion that it would be inept.

Why if you have "all" would you make something flawed and then blame it for something you yourself did not have to make flawed, being flawless yourself?

Accountability is something that gods and dictators don't have to worry about. Reality is what we humans have to suffer through when the fans of either think they got it right and successfully market it.

It's your own invention that god isn't just or good Bri. That isn't my god so I cannot help you understand him.

Lol in fr0d0's mind it's perfectly just to doom 99% of people ever to exist to burn in hell forever.