(July 18, 2012 at 8:56 am)Faith No More Wrote:

Spockrates Wrote:Just imagine what they'd sing!

Something sexual in its nature most likely.

Perhaps you are correct. Tell me, please: Did the member of Kiss who wrote these lyrics want his baby to go, or did he need her to stay?

"Parasite"

She'll always be there trying to grab a hold
She thought she knew me, but she didn't know
That I was sad and wanted her to go

Parasite lady
Parasite eyes
Parasite lady
No need to cry

I didn't wanna have to get away
I told her things I didn't want to say
I need her and I hope she'll understand

Parasite lady
Parasite eyes
Parasite lady
No need to cry

Another query: Are the parasite eyes those of his baby, or are they his own, or are they those of someone else? If only those gnomes could speak!

(July 15, 2012 at 4:16 pm)spockrates Wrote: I'm wondering whether there are any biblical passages that contradict one another. Please provide two contradictory passages for discussion and explain why they result in a contradiction. Thanks.

2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

2CH 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

Regards

Grimesy

(July 18, 2012 at 10:21 am)pgrimes15 Wrote:

(July 15, 2012 at 4:16 pm)spockrates Wrote: I'm wondering whether there are any biblical passages that contradict one another. Please provide two contradictory passages for discussion and explain why they result in a contradiction. Thanks.

2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

2CH 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

Regards

Grimesy

Thanks, pgrimes15. That's definitely a contradiction, but it's likely due to a mistranslation of the text. I agree there are several instances of numbers being mistranslated. Do you have any other type of contradiction in mind?

That quote is mis-attributed! Spock might have ripped it off, but that was Sherlock Holmes. I'm sad now.

(July 18, 2012 at 10:26 am)spockrates Wrote:

(July 18, 2012 at 10:21 am)pgrimes15 Wrote: 2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

2CH 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

Regards

Grimesy

Thanks, pgrimes15. That's definitely a contradiction, but it's likely due to a mistranslation of the text. I agree there are several instances of numbers being mistranslated. Do you have any other type of contradiction in mind?

2SA 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

2SA 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:

Just done a bit of research using the bible gateway - it's really good for comparing passages in different bible versions. Of the 27 english language versions of the OT for 2SA 21:8, some state the 5 sons of Michal, some the 5 sons of Merab, and a couple somewhere in between.

The stats are

Michal - 8 versions

Merab - 17 versions

In between 2 version - having Michal but in brackets
having "(the sister of) Michal"

Get a life !!! I hear you saying, but I found myself at a loose end this afternoon.

Regards

Grimesy

(July 18, 2012 at 10:51 am)Shell B Wrote: That quote is mis-attributed! Spock might have ripped it off, but that was Sherlock Holmes. I'm sad now.

Does a quote have to be accurately attributed to be true? For example, more than 2,300 years ago Socrates said, "Birds of a feather flock together." Now someone might say that Socrates was the first to say it, for Plato's dialogs are the oldest extant documents to contain the quote. But after speaking the words, Socrates said the proverb was an extremely old one. We might never know who first uttered the words, but that doesn't mean they're any less true, I think. How about you? (Nice avatar, BTW. Looks familiar. Is that a photo of you, or someone you admire?)

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(July 18, 2012 at 11:05 am)pgrimes15 Wrote:

(July 18, 2012 at 10:26 am)spockrates Wrote: Thanks, pgrimes15. That's definitely a contradiction, but it's likely due to a mistranslation of the text. I agree there are several instances of numbers being mistranslated. Do you have any other type of contradiction in mind?

2SA 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

2SA 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:

Just done a bit of research using the bible gateway - it's really good for comparing passages in different bible versions. Of the 27 english language versions of the OT for 2SA 21:8, some state the 5 sons of Michal, some the 5 sons of Merab, and a couple somewhere in between.

The stats are

Michal - 8 versions

Merab - 17 versions

In between 2 version - having Michal but in brackets
having "(the sister of) Michal"

Get a life !!! I hear you saying, but I found myself at a loose end this afternoon.

Regards

Grimesy

Thanks Grimesy. Yes I like BibleGateway.com. In response to the apparent contradiction you suggested, it's possible it's a case of mistranslation. Saul had many daughters. The NIV translates the passage this way:

But the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Aiah’s daughter Rizpah, whom she had borne to Saul, together with the five sons of Saul’s daughter Merab,[a] whom she had borne to Adriel son of Barzillai the Meholathite.

(2 Samuel 21:8)

The footnotes for the passage from that version:

(a) 2 Samuel 21:8 Two Hebrew manuscripts, some Septuagint manuscripts and Syriac (see also 1 Samuel 18:19); most Hebrew and Septuagint manuscripts Michal

That Saul had a daughter by that name is evident from another passage:

Saul said to David, “Here is my older daughter Merab. I will give her to you in marriage; only serve me bravely and fight the battles of the Lord.” For Saul said to himself, “I will not raise a hand against him. Let the Philistines do that!”

(1 Samuel 18:17)

One thing I find interesting is that biblical scholars usually use the translation that is supported by a majority of the extant texts. In this case, the opposite was done. One exception to the rule is to use an alternate translation if it is reliable and older than the majority of the texts--the reasoning being that older texts are closer to the original autographs, and therefore more accurate. There is debate among the scholars regarding whether this is a good practice, or not, it it explains several of the differences amoung modern translations. Not sure if this was why the alternate translation was chosen in this case. It's worthy of further inquiry. Perhaps one of us should write a letter to the publishers of the NIV asking them to explain?

So there are mistakes within the bible that you admit to. Now given that there are these errors that are obvious it raises the possibility that there are errors that are not so obvious. This could extend to doctrine and there is no way of knowing what was truth. In inverted commas.
Blessed are the cheese makers you say.

(July 18, 2012 at 11:17 am)spockrates Wrote:

(July 18, 2012 at 10:51 am)Shell B Wrote: That quote is mis-attributed! Spock might have ripped it off, but that was Sherlock Holmes. I'm sad now.

Does a quote have to be accurately attributed to be true? For example, more than 2,300 years ago Socrates said, "Birds of a feather flock together." Now someone might say that Socrates was the first to say it, for Plato's dialogs are the oldest extant documents to contain the quote. But after speaking the words, Socrates said the proverb was an extremely old one. We might never know who first uttered the words, but that doesn't mean they're any less true, I think. How about you? (Nice avatar, BTW. Looks familiar. Is that a photo of you, or someone you admire?)

---

(July 18, 2012 at 11:05 am)pgrimes15 Wrote: 2SA 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

2SA 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:

Just done a bit of research using the bible gateway - it's really good for comparing passages in different bible versions. Of the 27 english language versions of the OT for 2SA 21:8, some state the 5 sons of Michal, some the 5 sons of Merab, and a couple somewhere in between.

The stats are

Michal - 8 versions

Merab - 17 versions

In between 2 version - having Michal but in brackets
having "(the sister of) Michal"

Get a life !!! I hear you saying, but I found myself at a loose end this afternoon.

Regards

Grimesy

Thanks Grimesy. Yes I like BibleGateway.com. In response to the apparent contradiction you suggested, it's possible it's a case of mistranslation. Saul had many daughters. The NIV translates the passage this way:

But the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Aiah’s daughter Rizpah, whom she had borne to Saul, together with the five sons of Saul’s daughter Merab,[a] whom she had borne to Adriel son of Barzillai the Meholathite.

(2 Samuel 21:8)

The footnotes for the passage from that version:

(a) 2 Samuel 21:8 Two Hebrew manuscripts, some Septuagint manuscripts and Syriac (see also 1 Samuel 18:19); most Hebrew and Septuagint manuscripts Michal

That Saul had a daughter by that name is evident from another passage:

Saul said to David, “Here is my older daughter Merab. I will give her to you in marriage; only serve me bravely and fight the battles of the Lord.” For Saul said to himself, “I will not raise a hand against him. Let the Philistines do that!”

(1 Samuel 18:17)

One thing I find interesting is that biblical scholars usually use the translation that is supported by a majority of the extant texts. In this case, the opposite was done. One exception to the rule is to use an alternate translation if it is reliable and older than the majority of the texts--the reasoning being that older texts are closer to the original autographs, and therefore more accurate. There is debate among the scholars regarding whether this is a good practice, or not, it it explains several of the differences amoung modern translations. Not sure if this was why the alternate translation was chosen in this case. It's worthy of further inquiry. Perhaps one of us should write a letter to the publishers of the NIV asking them to explain?

"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (MAT 27:5)

"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (ACT 1:18)

This is one of the best known biblical contradictions regarding the fate of Judas. Please don't say it's a mistranslation.

Regards

Grimesy

It's a mistranslation! It's a different meaning they had back then! It's another mistranslation! It's unintentionally misleading! If you take the absolute last point in that man's life, and the absolute first point of that man's governance, it could possibly be credible if you ignore loads of other facts about the time that have been well established! It's anything! It's anything I can think of! It's anything in the world!

^ This is either the ABSOLUTE WORD OF GOD, or 'divinely inspired', depending on which view you take. This is the book that millions of people worldwide use to guide them, that they claim is the final authority on matters of history, science, morality and philosophy. Look at the state of it. Look at the sheer number of concessions and excuses you've had to make for it. What kind of idiot would use this book, with its hundreds of mistranslations, misunderstandings, mixed meanings and so on, as any kind of guide? How can its reliability be vouched for in any sense?

Fucking mental, you lot.

This thread stinks of intellectual dishonestly. You're not talking about contradictions, you're making excuses for them.