(July 27, 2012 at 4:09 pm)Tobie Wrote: It'd be pretty bloody expensive to repeal the "right to keep and bear arms". Everyone who'd payed for them in the past would demand recompense, and it'd be a gargantuan task to make sure none fell through the net.

I too agree with this. Especially when you see the amount of guns currently owned, not to mention the power the NRA weilds.

Pft, who needs a gun. RPGs are cheaper and much more effective.
(The NRA btw, an embarrassment to gun ownership in this country)

I've never understood the mad American desire to own so many guns.

It borders on fetishism.

As a side note, a work colleague many years ago used to collect mercenary mags for some reason.

I was flicking through one that had an advert for a video that featured a naked brunette disassembling a M-60 machine gun, reassembling it and firing it.

Hmmm.

What was it called and where could you get it?

(July 28, 2012 at 6:15 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: What was it called and where could you get it?

It was 20+ years ago.

the most fluid outlet of guns that i've been witness to, comes from the drug addicted son of a very popular gun store owner. the son would put the word out for the what his dad had in his store, cut the price in half and sold them on the street. i would have no idea how easy it is in the uk to attain weaponry, but it's really just as easy as deciding you want to find a bag of weed here. you tell someone you're looking or a cutter or a hammer and within 2 or 3 degrees of separation, you're at the chinese store with him, looking at his stash in the trunk of his car.

i wish it were a more complex deal than that. the background check used to run a week, i'd put a deposit down with the proper papeprwork and they'd call me when i cleared (or didn't). since i haven't bought anything in a long time, i can't be sure of this - but i think someone said they have an instant check now. i don't see how you can properly vet someone's mental history as well as criminal check (violent crime, controlled substances or dui), instantly. lastly, none of it matters if people buy thru the legal loopholes - there are many of them (gunshows, transfers from parents or relatives, etc...) that require no check whatsoever.

there is almost no gun control, from my pov.

I personally do not agree with the 2nd amendment. If it were up to me, guns wouldn't exist, period, but I try to keep in mind that if we take away that constitutional right, what other constitutional rights might we take away? The first amendment? Fuck that! Roe v. Wade? Fuck that too!

Maybe we should just do stronger regulation.

For any market, there is also an accompanying resale, off-the-books market, depending on how large, popular or hospitable the parent market is. There will always be something like that, because people will sell to each other when they wish to get rid of a product.

This is why the argument Tiberius and others make about the "black market" is a canard -- already within any market comes attempts at selling from consumer to consumer. That is inevitable.

The real question here that Tiberius and Co. should be asking (instead of bullshitting about some criminal obtaining a weapon), does gun control effectively reduce the secondary consumer-to-consumer resale market (that set includes the black market. It also includes grey zones, etc )? Is there something that will? Can this ever be solved?

There will always be grey and black markets. And there will always be people willing to sell to their local peer group -- a handgun, bag of weed, computer, etc,.

On a side note, I've always wondered what is going to happen when some guy either attempts to commit a massacre (or simply waves around a gun) and is shot at by some other gun toting American, what will the police do about it?

My guess is shoot both people, even if one (right or wrong) believed they were returning fire at the original attacker.

The black market is created, by poor gun control. You can buy an m-60 in Kentucky (with no form of a permit) and stroll into any major city and sell it.

All you need to use a gun in a shooting range is a license. I don't mean a gun license. You get live ammunition too.

Let's not forget that that criminals can just steal the guns they want.

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(July 29, 2012 at 12:45 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: On a side note, I've always wondered what is going to happen when some guy either attempts to commit a massacre (or simply waves around a gun) and is shot at by some other gun toting American, what will the police do about it?

http://www.volokh.com/posts/1212034090.shtml

http://www.davekopel.com/2A/OthWr/principal&gun.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian...w_shooting

There are many more.