This will probably piss people off, but oh well. In 2008, I voted for Barack Obama. I was an idiot. I was a fucking retard and I am embarrassed that I voted for him. Is it because the free market compelled me to and now I support Ron Paul or Mitt Romney? Not at all. I am on the left. If you are an atheist who loves science and open-mindedness, then you ought not cling to your candidate and defend him just for the sake of being right. Look at the facts.

Look at his top donors.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contri...=N00009638

Goldman Sachs donated over a million dollars. It is his second highest donor. Hmm. Why might that be? Must be because he stood firm against the banks and Dodd-Frank really put them in line for the sake of the people, right? Heh. Wake up and smell the banks that are still too big to fail.

Obama explicitly stated that he does not want to legalize marijuana. Either you are a real liberal who supports civil liberties or you are a phony liberal who wants a police state policy on marijuana. You can't have your cake and eat it at the same time. Either you are a phony liberal and partisan tribalist, or you're not.

Even right-wing Ron Paul denounced the TSA. Obama made excuses about how the TSA is under tremendous pressure.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40289750/ns/...necessary/

He voted for the PATRIOT Act. He voted for the NDAA's indefinite detention.

I want single-payer health health, not some right-wing mandate that lines the pocket of insurance companies and does not solve the insane spending per capita. A micro-change does not do it for me. You can make all the excuses you want and blame the Republican congress but he didn't even bring the option of single-payer to the table.

So I ask all critical thinking fellow liberals not to cling to your position like a Christian. Be willing to concede evidence and criticisms. Unless you are actually a fan of warrantless roving wiretaps, indefinite detention, prohibition of marijuana, nano-changes in health care that maintain an absurdly high deficit, TSA searches, and a Goldman Sachs candidate, don't vote for Obama. Look into Jill Stein and protest with Occupy.

Well, that's a good start. Launch back at me if you feel I misrepresented Obama.

Obama is definitely disappointing. However, in our flawed political system the choice is Obama or Romney (sorry, Ron Paul is not going to be on the ballot and won't win as a write in candidate).

All I can hope for is that without the need to run for reelection, and if we can get a democratic majority in congress, Obama may prove to be more progressive than he has shown himself to be thus far. He's problematic, but still remains the lesser of two evils, far and away the lesser evil.

Vote Jill Stein, get Mitt Romney.

Please, please, NO. My country has followed the US into too many shitty wars.

(August 23, 2012 at 11:48 am)festive1 Wrote: Obama is definitely disappointing. However, in our flawed political system the choice is Obama or Romney (sorry, Ron Paul is not going to be on the ballot and won't win as a write in candidate).

All I can hope for is that without the need to run for reelection, and if we can get a democratic majority in congress, Obama may prove to be more progressive than he has shown himself to be thus far. He's problematic, but still remains the lesser of two evils, far and away the lesser evil.

You are disappointed that there are two evils to choose from. So, the logical response is to hop on the bandwagon and join the very people who perpetuate the problem of the "lesser of two evils"?

Yes.... or you will end up with a mormon shithead.

That mentality is precisely why our elections are a sham and nobody decent ever gets elected.

(August 23, 2012 at 12:05 pm)goddamnit Wrote: That mentality is precisely why our elections are a sham and nobody decent ever gets elected.

And you aren't going to change it this close to an election. Voting for someone else now is pointless.

No. Our elections are a sham because of the two-party system ( about the only thing the two parties agree upon ) and the primary system.

The way the election laws are configured in the various states means that you can't start a 3d party six weeks.... or even six months...before the election and get on the ballot in all 50 states.

You can rail against reality all you want. Your course of action will ensure that the worst president since Dubya is elected to bring along the same cast of fucking assholes to govern who drove this country over a cliff just 4 short years ago.

What would happen if everyone who thinks that way, who thinks that they should just vote for obama/romney cause 'he's at least the lesser of two evils' actually voted for who they really wanted to run the country?

Quote: sorry, Ron Paul is not going to be on the ballot and won't win as a write in candidate

No, RP won't be, but gary johnson will be on it =D.




Though I will say that the OP's point about the TSA is weakened when he says that "even right wing ron paul...", he's libertarian. I'd pick other republicans to make the point that "even right wingers have been saying x" because RP is quite far from being a normal republican.

(August 23, 2012 at 12:12 pm)frankiej Wrote:

(August 23, 2012 at 12:05 pm)goddamnit Wrote: That mentality is precisely why our elections are a sham and nobody decent ever gets elected.

And you aren't going to change it this close to an election. Voting for someone else now is pointless.

Right. The way to break the two party system we have now is to change how presidental elections are decided - and that will require a Constitutional amendment

Bitching about it isn't going to help, and three months before a primary election is not the time to start talking about.