Quote: If God has total omniscience, it is indeed probable that this abrogates our freewill.

The Catholic position is that God is infinite, as are his qualities of omnipresence,omnipotence and omniscience.

Does it not follow that an infinite being can only possess infinite qualities?
Not a rhetorical question,I really want to know. I'd be grateful not to hear from any theist apologists.


I keep thinking of Epicurus and the problem of suffering:

Quote:Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

Btw, none who would utter the word "Spock" at the rat like visage of Zachary Quinto can ever be mistaken for the real thing.

(August 26, 2012 at 7:42 pm)padraic Wrote: I keep thinking of Epicurus and the problem of suffering:

I've never yet seen anyone come up with a response to that which satisfies all aspects of the problem. If Epicurus was around today, bearing in mind I know nothing else about him and his life, I suspect he'd be one of our more regarded atheist spokesmen along with the famous Four Horsemen (sadly reduced now).

(August 26, 2012 at 7:44 pm)Chuck Wrote: Btw, none who would utter the word "Spock" at the rat like visage of Zachary Quinto can ever be mistaken for the real thing.

Which is what confuses me about our Spock's choice of avatar. Of course everyone is a free agent on these matters, but discussion has already revealed our shared opinion on the Abrams' Train Wreck Star Trek - um - thing.

To mix my geekology again: I find your lack of Nimoy disturbing. Well, odd anyway.

(August 26, 2012 at 11:13 am)spockrates Wrote:

(August 26, 2012 at 11:04 am)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: I don't remember. Why does that matter? To make an analogy, you're just getting distracted by the equivalent of little melodic figures and ornaments and missing the shared underlying harmonic progression common to all of them.

Well, isn't what you suggest akin to saying the British invented the baseball, because cricket preceded the game Abner Doubleday claimed to have invented? While one might argue there are some similarities between the two, they are in no way the same, I think. Baseball was the creation of an American, and never was the national pastime of Great Britian. Don't you agree? Or do you think Baseball was actually a British invention, and baseball is too similar to cricket to be reasonably considered as a different sport?

This is a false analogy. There wasn't some enormous natural barrier like the Atlantic ocean that would keep Jews ignorant of such beliefs. Ever heard of Hellenization?

Also, New BSG is much better than the original.

(August 26, 2012 at 8:39 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Also, New BSG is much better than the original.

It's very hard not to be. Never had vacuousness been presented with as much pomp in the whole lamentable history of Sci-Fi television series .

(August 26, 2012 at 8:39 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Also, New BSG is much better than the original.

I wouldn't know; I never bothered with it past the almost criminally boring pilot.

BTW, Sci-Fi does not work if it is just a stupidly veiled affirmation of the past or present. It seems "mainstream" sic fi is increasingly headed this direction.

(August 26, 2012 at 6:01 pm)spockrates Wrote: So you would have Christians accept a concept of God in which its omniscience trumps its omnipotence and omnibenevolence?

Couldn't care less what a christian accepts, but I thought I was talking to someone looking to reason their way through this whole bit.

Quote:Remember: The Christian believes her God is the most perfect being that exists. Please explain how a god who has neither the power (i.e., omnipotence) to control its omniscience, nor the caring desire (i.e., omnibenevolence) to control its omniscience is more perfect than one who does have the power and desire to limit its omniscience.

I shouldn't have to, it's their god, they need to do their own work. Maybe theres something to be said here about the difficulties of explaining a concept with reason when no reason was involved in its conception....

I heard that Bill jumped over a car...no, no, I heard it was two cars and lamp-post.......look, in the sky, it's a bird...It's a plane.. sigh.

Quote:It's not that hard to grasp, my friend. It's as simple as rock, paper, scissors!

Rgr, and equally childish.

(August 26, 2012 at 8:55 pm)Chuck Wrote: BTW, Sci-Fi does not work if it is just a stupidly veiled affirmation of the past or present. It seems "mainstream" sic fi is increasingly headed this direction.

That's a very good observation. Abrams' Trek 'reboot', BSG and the embarrassingly sub-cbeebies pantomime that passes for new Doctor Who are perfect examples of that.

There is a Youtuber called batmanmarch who collects and reviews collectible action figure toys of (surprise, surprise) Batman but most especially 'classic' Doctor Who. He also uses them in episodes of his stop-motion animation adventure series "Doctor Who Action Figure Adventures" and they are a whole Universe away from anything the BBC has been putting out in recent years. His stories are totally original, his and his fellow cast members' impressions of the various Doctors etc are simply spot on, his sets and props are superb, the music and sound effects - known in BBC sci-fi circles as "special sound" - are amazing, taken mostly from the series itself but also from other sources. Everyone, myself included, has heaped praise on his work and said that it deserves at least a television outing in its own right, if not actually included as bonus extras on classic Who DVD releases. Anyone interested really should check him out.

---

Yet again, apologies for my persisting in derailing the thread.

(August 26, 2012 at 7:40 pm)Chuck Wrote: It is a good thing (to let that be known) if you believe humanity is in dire need of population control and you are anxious to do your part.


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Vulcans may be geeks, but they are no strangers to pon farr.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pon_farr