(September 3, 2012 at 1:01 am)Godschild Wrote: @ greneknight, 14 well little one you have miles to go so do not get in a hurry, you're thinking is all wrong if you are really looking for the truth. You have already eliminated thins you need in your life to make decisions, you should gather up all you have condemned to trash, it could be it is where you will find the truth. Anyone who eliminates any of the possibilities at your age is in for disappointment in their future. Just some advice, what you do with it is your business.

It's not only God as a being that I have discarded into the bin. I have discarded loads of other rubbish too. Santa Claus was one I discarded not very long ago. I also discarded fairies and pixies because there was a time in my life when I really thought they just might exist because of the many books on fairies I read then as a young child. I have discarded Allah, Hindu gods, goddesses, Aztec gods and goddesses, Buddhist bodhisatvas, Greek gods and goddesses, Roman ones too and the Viking Thor and many many others. Ghosts have also been discarded together with all kinds of spirits and other supernatural beings of all shapes and sizes. Do you suggest I take the whole stinking mess out of the bin?

(September 2, 2012 at 10:33 pm)greneknight Wrote:

(September 2, 2012 at 10:01 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?

(September 2, 2012 at 10:09 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Give us something to work with grene. So far you have said what Christianity is not, according to your church.

What is it about you that makes you a Christian? What boxes do you tick?

First, I will answer MysticKnight:

I think I agree with Bart Ehrman that Jesus was an apocalyptic zealot whose sole desire was to get rid of the Romans. (Can you believe I got banned for just mentioning this in that blasted Christian Forum?)

So, I believe Jesus existed as a man. I don't think the real Jesus gave very good teachings. In all probability, my head tells me that he couldn't have the slightest love for Gentiles like us. He hated Gentiles like any Jewish zealot then (and possibly even today). He believed that even if the Romans killed him, he would return within the lifetime of his disciples and wrest power from the Romans and he'd rule Israel and there'd be peace etc. There is a huge amount of biblical evidence for this view so fundamentalists should really agree with me.

But he got killed by the Romans and that was that. His disciples remembered his words that he'd come back. So before long, the rumour spread that Jesus rose from the dead. Remember this was 2000 years ago and people were insanely superstitious. They started a new religion. But his followers were Jews and they didn't want to do away with their old religion.

Then came St Paul, a Hellenistic Jew who came into contact with mainly Greeks. He decided that things should be made easy for the Greeks. They didn't have to be Jews nor did they have to conform to those tedious Jewish laws. St Paul's church grew because the Greeks wouldn't dream of becoming Jews in the first place. And the Greeks were rich people while the old disciples only had Jewish converts into Christianity and so the church in Jerusalem was poor.

St Paul was plagued throughout his ministry by the fact that he didn't really know Jesus. Notice that in his epistles, St Paul made no mention of Jesus' life on earth because he knew bugger all about that. But he was the richie-poo while the Jerusalem church was poverty stricken. St Paul wanted to give money to that poor church in the hope that he would get some recognition from the real disciples. But they spurned him. Notice in his last epistle, he made a big do about sending them money - asking his parishioners to pray that they would accept the money. Why wouldn't anyone accept money unless they thought St Paul was a heretic?

Anyway, Richie poo's church won in the end. The disciples' church (historians call the Ebionites) died out after some time. Hard for them to get converts. St Paul's church became more and more successful until the Emperor converted and it became the No. 1 religion. By then, any remnants of the real disciples' followers would have been destroyed if they hadn't starved to death in their poverty.

In answer to MysticKnight's question, yes I believe in Jesus. But the Jesus I believe in is not the real racist Jesus who had grandiose beliefs about his own power but the one created by the church over the centuries. It's today's church Jesus that I believe in. The good guy who loves Gentiles and will die even for us. It's that concept of Jesus (evolved over the centuries) that I believe in.

In answer to FallentoReason's question what makes me a Christian. It's because of the following:
1. My baptism
2. I believe in Jesus Christ (as aforesaid) and willing to follow his teachings (actually the teachings the Church imputes to him)
3. I submit to and serve the Church of Christ. It's the same thing. Submit means I follow the teachings of the church which the church imputes to Jesus.

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(September 2, 2012 at 10:11 pm)CaseyTheAthie Wrote: Man, When I visited Europe that is nothing like you're saying. And that wasnt long ago. I was an theist then and got reemed constantly for it by european christians as well as christians in my unit. I think you speak too broadly to justify yourself.

What church did you visit in Europe and whereabouts in Europe was it? Of course there are pockets of fundamentalists everywhere.

it wasn't a church at all but people in open society. Don't get it twisted and assume religion only exists in churches. I did the normal tour around and such. People would overhear my buddies ragging me for wanting to see some nice buildings and such and jumped on.

Quote:I don't think I know what that means. I was baptised as an infant and I'll be confirmed later this year when I return to England. I have served as an altar boy ever since I was 5. I've sung the Magnificat and the Nunc Dimittis since I was 6 - ALMOST EVERY DAY at Evensong. So far, I have been blessed by countless vicars, bishops and even the Archbishops of Canterbury and York. Does that sound like a Luke Warm Christian (whatever that means)?

These is nothing to in there to prove you are a Christian. You did not mention one time that you actually had your heart behind you when you did those things. Being blessed even by the highest heads of the Church doesn't mean nothing if God didn't bless you. What is Christianity for you? A moral code?

(September 3, 2012 at 4:45 am)CBA222 Wrote:

Quote:I don't think I know what that means. I was baptised as an infant and I'll be confirmed later this year when I return to England. I have served as an altar boy ever since I was 5. I've sung the Magnificat and the Nunc Dimittis since I was 6 - ALMOST EVERY DAY at Evensong. So far, I have been blessed by countless vicars, bishops and even the Archbishops of Canterbury and York. Does that sound like a Luke Warm Christian (whatever that means)?

These is nothing to in there to prove you are a Christian. You did not mention one time that you actually had your heart behind you when you did those things. Being blessed even by the highest heads of the Church doesn't mean nothing if God didn't bless you. What is Christianity for you? A moral code?

Why? Feeling fuzzy inside me is important in order that I might be a genuine Christian. We have different definitions of what a Christian means. I'll stick to mine which is the standard definition of Holy Church while you stick to your new-fangled modern American fundamentalist definition.

Tell me, what is the point of Christianity? Tell me straight and clear.

(September 3, 2012 at 7:46 am)CBA222 Wrote: Tell me, what is the point of Christianity? Tell me straight and clear.

I haven't thought of that. You must understand that there are many things I haven't thought about. So some of the questions require me to think through and come to some quick answers but of course my answers may not be comprehensive simply because I'm only thinking of them for the first time. I'm not an old man who's ruminated over these things for decades so you must bear with me.

This is how I see it.

Christianity is important because it's the bedrock of Western civilization. It is the source of our art, paintings, literature, drama, music, architecture and sculpture.

It's also built over the centuries a great deal of infrastructure that enables it to be used as a force of good. Of course I see a lot of problems to this but everything has problems of its own.

It's also needful for the usual human activities - the celebration of birth (baptism), coming of age (confirmation), marriage (holy matrimony) and death (funeral).

I would say Christianity has many important functions.

But, that isn't the point it was intended for?

(September 3, 2012 at 8:15 am)CBA222 Wrote: But, that isn't the point it was intended for?

Whose intention are you talking about? Different people have different intentions.

(September 2, 2012 at 9:39 pm)greneknight Wrote:

(September 2, 2012 at 9:21 pm)Drich Wrote: Do you consider yourself to be a Luke Warm Christian?

I don't think I know what that means. I was baptised as an infant and I'll be confirmed later this year when I return to England. I have served as an altar boy ever since I was 5. I've sung the Magnificat and the Nunc Dimittis since I was 6 - ALMOST EVERY DAY at Evensong. So far, I have been blessed by countless vicars, bishops and even the Archbishops of Canterbury and York. Does that sound like a Luke Warm Christian (whatever that means)?

It is someone who simply goes through the motions of Christianity, with no true desire or passion for God. Sort of a Check list theology. When one can list or claim all of the 'religious mile stones' he has past with no real desire or conviction for God.

In this passage Christ is Speaking:
Revelations 3:15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

(September 2, 2012 at 9:35 pm)greneknight Wrote: You may ask for statistics and I tell you I have none and I'm not bothered about it. If you think I am wrong, fine. You can feel good in your supposition that atheists run the most charitable organisations.

Woah woah woah, hold your god damn horses.

I make no such supposition. That's a straw man right there.

I asked you for something very simple. To back up the claims you were making. If you can't, that's not my problem. Don't then resort to telling me what I supposedly think about the subject. That's downright insulting.