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**The Grand Nudger**

Well, considering the 150,000 year gap between anatomically modern humans and behaviorally modern humans it would be difficult to establish that some form of religious or sacred morality was manufactured before any sort of practical or secular morality was engaged in by homo sapiens. Consider, btw, that the term "behaviorally modern" does not imply elaborate religious observances. That comes even later. All of this is ignoring the social aspect of our ancestors which stretches back 2.5my (and to be honest, a great deal further). Good luck painting any sort of superstition as the origin of morality. Religious anything (including it's belligerent ramblings on the subject of morality) is a footnote, a minor mention at the end of the chapter on human beings. Look how quickly it rose and then faded with relation to the vast span of time we've been here.

Angrboda · (This post was last modified: September 17, 2012 at 9:29 am by Angrboda.)

(September 17, 2012 at 6:20 am)Red Celt Wrote:
(September 17, 2012 at 2:32 am)Polaris Wrote: It started with the Neanderthals as I probably already stated especially since the other two were not around at the time the Neanderthals were developing their worship.
{...snip...}

I'll repeat my earlier statement about Ancient Greece. They had their gods... a whole pantheon of them; and they certainly decorated the graves of their loved ones (and I'm understating the word "decorated" very much). But you know what they didn't do? They didn't have a religious law from their gods... no religious morality.

Their connection with their gods was... don't piss them off. They went to temples to ask for good things in their life, and made offerings (usually small carvings) that they thought that their gods would appreciate. Why? So that the blind-chances of happen-stance might turn out well for them.

The ancient history of China was much the same. For a few thousand years, until sometime in the first millennium BCE, Chinese spiritual practices focused on divination, practiced by shaman, in order to help the people arrive at a "fortunate" (lucky) result to their plans, hopes and dreams. There was nothing moral about it. It was reading of bones and tea leaves.

The Spring and Autumn period gave rise to a blossoming of religious philosophies, but these philosophies took no heed of the growing practice of god worship, and were largely secular in nature. To call these systems "religious morality" in the Western sense associated with the Semitic religions would result in the grossest of distortions.

Red Celt · September 17, 2012 at 9:50 am

(September 17, 2012 at 9:28 am)apophenia Wrote: The ancient history of China was much the same. For a few thousand years, until sometime in the first millennium BCE, Chinese spiritual practices focused on divination, practiced by shaman, in order to help the people arrive at a "fortunate" (lucky) result to their plans, hopes and dreams. There was nothing moral about it. It was reading of bones and tea leaves.

The Spring and Autumn period gave rise to a blossoming of religious philosophies, but these philosophies took no heed of the growing practice of god worship, and were largely secular in nature. To call these systems "religious morality" in the Western sense associated with the Semitic religions would result in the grossest of distortions.

Tsze-kung asked, saying, "Is there one word which may serve as a rule
of practice for all one's life?" The Master said, "Is not Reciprocity such a
word? What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others."

— Confucius, Analects XV.24

Polaris · September 17, 2012 at 8:41 pm

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