(September 19, 2012 at 11:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: I can not say with 100% accuracy, but am fairly sure that scripture does not say anything about beating children. I was quite a handful as a child and I believe the whippings I got were the only thing that kept me in line and taught me respect for others.

Answer honestly:
Respect for others, or respect for authority figures?

(September 19, 2012 at 11:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: I can not say with 100% accuracy, but am fairly sure that scripture does not say anything about beating children.

I can say with 100% accuracy that the book of Proverbs says you're wrong.

Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."

Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."

Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."

Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."

Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."

Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."

New Testament isn't getting left out of this one either, though.

Hebrews 12:6-7: "...the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son. Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?"

(September 19, 2012 at 9:49 pm)Shell B Wrote: Polaris, there is a distinct difference. There is no atheist doctrine that encourages beating children, whereas your Bible is quite clear on the subject. Also, your argument is a logical fallacy.

That being said, this thread is a bit "Rawr, I have nothing to say but that I don't like it!" There really is not much here to go off of. A story in the news? A talking point? Have you got anything, glumpy?

You trying to assert a logical fallacy is a logical fallacy. Especially since the OP did not address any religious reasons for corporal punishment that would be any different than any culture.

Punishment is just a secular way of establishing justice. Religious people will resort to such tactics, but the result is the same as if an atheist did so.

(September 20, 2012 at 12:06 am)TaraJo Wrote:

(September 19, 2012 at 11:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: I can not say with 100% accuracy, but am fairly sure that scripture does not say anything about beating children.

I can say with 100% accuracy that the book of Proverbs says you're wrong.

Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."

Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."

Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."

Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."

Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."

Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."

New Testament isn't getting left out of this one either, though.

Hebrews 12:6-7: "...the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son. Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?"

You should do a little research, the word beat in Proverbs 23:13-14 is literally translated smite, which means to strike not beat as you would have it. Why do you think that discipline is bad, how do you think children will learn respect, by teaching themselves, oh yeah I've seen how well that has worked. The world is full of grown brats, self taught respect I imagine.

Proverbs 19:18 Discipline your son while there is hope, and do not desire his death. This is a translation into English as it is used and understood today, I don't know about you but I do not use 15th century English. So v.18 speaks against beating a child. I stand by what I stated previously.

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(September 19, 2012 at 11:58 pm)festive1 Wrote:

(September 19, 2012 at 11:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: I can not say with 100% accuracy, but am fairly sure that scripture does not say anything about beating children. I was quite a handful as a child and I believe the whippings I got were the only thing that kept me in line and taught me respect for others.

Answer honestly:
Respect for others, or respect for authority figures?

Both, I did not know that I needed to make a distinction.

(September 19, 2012 at 11:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: I can not say with 100% accuracy, but am fairly sure that scripture does not say anything about beating children. I was quite a handful as a child and I believe the whippings I got were the only thing that kept me in line and taught me respect for others.

He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24)

So you could only be 'kept in line' or 'have respect for others' by the use of pain?

Wow!

And yet so many children are brought up without such threats and are good decent people

and how serial killers always had parents that beat them

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This is a translation into English as it is used and understood today, I don't know about you but I do not use 15th century English.

Its a bad translation. The hebrew word implies a physical strike. What is this 15th century you are talking of?

Hitting your child is just lazy parenting.

Very lazy.

prisons are full of beaten children.

(September 19, 2012 at 10:46 pm)Puddleglum Wrote: If you don't like it then don't post here ShellB. Post elsewhere.

It doesn't work that way. I can post anywhere, whether I, you, or fucking Willy Wonka likes it. I was simply pointing out that this thread is just your personal rant. It's a facebook status update or a tweet.

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(September 20, 2012 at 1:12 am)Polaris Wrote: You trying to assert a logical fallacy is a logical fallacy.

Oh, dear. I can already see this is going to be a waste of time.

Quote:Especially since the OP did not address any religious reasons for corporal punishment that would be any different than any culture.

I agree that the OP did not address much of anything. That doesn't make, "But, but, but atheists do it too!" any less of a shot in the dark.

Quote:Punishment is just a secular way of establishing justice. Religious people will resort to such tactics, but the result is the same as if an atheist did so.

Really, so hell is secular?

(September 19, 2012 at 11:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: I was quite a handful as a child and I believe the whippings I got were the only thing that kept me in line and taught me respect for others.

I was quite the handful too, and my parent never laid a hand upon me. All I needed was the phrase "What would Dad/Mom say about this?" in order to constantly think things through before I did anything. For granted, as any other child does, I did my share of mischief, but I was always respectful towards my parents and felt the appropriate amount of shame when they were disappointed in me. The only 'rebellion' I did was to study to become a nurse against their recommendation. Yet, I got good grades in school, ate my veggies, came home at appropriate hours etc. without corporal punishment.
My sister has three energetic boys aged three and four and they all respond really well to verbal chastising when needed and are seldom disrespectful, because she and her husband have taken the time to explain to them 'why' instead of losing their tempers and hit the boys.
If you were beaten as a child, I'm not surprised why you are the way you are today..

Children from 1,5 - 3 years in average can't understand the parents talking to them, and can walk, doing bad stuff like throwing stuff or hit another toddler. Some gentle taps on the diaper armored butt and a verbal repreension is ok by me, besides, noone remebers that