(October 27, 2012 at 10:33 am)IATIA Wrote: The founding fathers were basically deists, not christians. Most wanted nothing to do with christianity. Remember, the Inquisition was fresh on their minds and they were all too familiar with the' power of the church'.

Stop the unfounded statements, proof please?

Jesus Christ, this is so simple... Some of you (yes, you, atheists) are taking this far too seriously.

The Constitution, which is the first document to substantiate the United States as a wholesome country, did not acknowledge a supreme being. It also clearly grants us the right to choose any religion we would like.

Nothing else matters. The US is not a "Christian nation", and even if it was started as one, current statistics indicate that Christianity has become more fragmented than ever.

(October 27, 2012 at 12:28 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Most, if not all, european countries became official sovereign countries by a
They all began christian... worse, catholic!
And now, look at them... mostly secular and it's mostly the elderly that attend religious ceremonies.

Wrong. Europeans were originally "pagan", which is an umbrella term for a naturalistic spiritual system, consisting of a way of life and multiple, fallible deities, that didn't need churches and priests to force the religion onto others. That natural preference is why Europeans are now mostly secular: Christianity is partly Jewish in origin, was forced onto Europeans, and has now lost the power needed to stifle descent. Since Europeans are more knowledgeable of the natural world via science, they no longer have the need to believe that things like lightning are the work or manifestations of other beings. Therefore, Europeans are shifting to what is more of a natural way of life, without the mysticism and uncertainty present in earlier times.

Quote:true, but it has in the year of our lord on it.

The best you can do, huh? A dating convention?

You xtians really are pathetic.

(October 27, 2012 at 10:43 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The best you can do, huh? A dating convention?

You xtians really are pathetic.

is there more needed? it may have been common to put that as part of the date, but that's like saying because it's common to say "so help me God" in court oath that there's no significance to it. christianity was obviously a deep part of their culture, also shown by all patriotic songs including our national anthem having God in it.

(October 27, 2012 at 11:29 pm)chi pan Wrote: christianity was obviously a deep part of their culture, also shown by all patriotic songs including our national anthem having God in it.

God? Kinda generic, don't you think? Now if they said Yahweh, you might have a case, but as it stands...

(October 27, 2012 at 11:34 pm)Darkstar Wrote:

(October 27, 2012 at 11:29 pm)chi pan Wrote: christianity was obviously a deep part of their culture, also shown by all patriotic songs including our national anthem having God in it.

God? Kinda generic, don't you think? Now if they said Yahweh, you might have a case, but as it stands...

please, what other God would they mention in their intention? like i said, you can argue definition but not intent.

Rev. Rye Wrote:More of a matter of linguistics than anything else. This was in the time when just saying 1787 wasn't self explanatory.

if that were the case, they could refer to is as AD, as that did exist at that time, or at very least in the year of christ's birth. saying in the year of our lord implies devotion. otherwise "our lord" would not be there.