(November 1, 2012 at 10:07 am)festive1 Wrote: So, it's okay if I killed my children because I created them?? I think not.

First, you didn't create your children in the same way that God creates. There's a reason we have words like procreate or beget. A more apt (though still somewhat flawed) analogy would be if you built a robot.

Second, many people do think it's OK to an extent. Consider abortion. Those who are for a woman's right to choose abortion generally don't grant a third party the right to force the woman to have an abortion.

(November 1, 2012 at 10:07 am)festive1 Wrote: So, it's okay if I killed my children because I created them?? I think not.

I don't think it would be ok. But if you did, they would be in a "better place". According many theists.

(November 1, 2012 at 10:34 am)John V Wrote:

(November 1, 2012 at 10:07 am)festive1 Wrote: So, it's okay if I killed my children because I created them?? I think not.

First, you didn't create your children in the same way that God creates. There's a reason we have words like procreate or beget. A more apt (though still somewhat flawed) analogy would be if you built a robot.

Second, many people do think it's OK to an extent. Consider abortion. Those who are for a woman's right to choose abortion generally don't grant a third party the right to force the woman to have an abortion.

I think I just heard a hair splitting.

Though I do love the morbid concept I get from Christians that God created us so if He wants he can kill us all if he wants as well.

And who hasn't heard the line, "I brought you into this world, and I can take you out of it!"? If parents expect their children to adhere to their rules and expectations, isn't that control, domination, hierarchy, I daresay, a form of enslavement? Supposedly benevolent enslavement, a la human subservience to god, but a form of enslavement nonetheless.

(November 1, 2012 at 4:59 am)Killman Wrote: Sadly, Lane still passed away, to everyone's surprise. This is obvious proof that prayer does nothing, but that is not the topic. Afterwards, I still seen pictures and comments being put up on this page and people saying the classic bullshit. 'He is in a better place!' 'He doesn't have to suffer anymore!' 'He is with god now!' All that jazz. Basicslly saying that Lane's death is now a GOOD thing.

Hypocrisy: if the christards didn't invent it they certainly perfected it.

Quote:So, heaven is eternal bliss, correct? Basically, human life is suffering, but if we follow gods word and accept Jesus Christ, then when we die we will go to this eternal bliss. That sounds dandy does it not?

uh, not so much. The version of Heaven I learned about sounds horrible. I do not want to live forever in a place where my parents can annoy me every day for all eternity while giving jesus and his dad hand-jobs.

(November 1, 2012 at 8:20 am)John V Wrote:

Quote:Is it the fact that they are playing god? Because we all know that god has murdered billions of people and technically still is murdering with disease, but it is okay as long as god does it.

I disagree with your wording, but the basic point is correct. God as creator has rights over his created beings, up to and including death. Created beings only have rights over other created beings to the extent granted by God.

Says who? You? An ancient book written by primitives? ...well whoopty-shit.
History has shown us that assigning the power to control life and death to a god is extremely dangerous. Suddenly the "servant of god" becomes the interpreter and executor of that god's divine whims. The notion you just presented is just completely without merit, and ironically enough, it does away with your supposed "objective" morality.

Please read the following very carefully. Pay special attention to the last sentence. Your god ESPECIALLY should definitely NOT have control over life and death.

(November 1, 2012 at 10:41 am)Utracia Wrote: I think I just heard a hair splitting.

Though I do love the morbid concept I get from Christians that God created us so if He wants he can kill us all if he wants as well.

On what basis do we have rights apart from those God grants us? I've never heard an answer that wasn't blatant special pleading. Consider our treatment of each other and other species when you reply (hint: consider the meat and pest control aisles of the supermarket, and that we freely kill other creatures which we didn't even create merely because they're tasty or annoy us).

Quote:If somebody says "he is in a better place" that isn't the same as saying "his death is a good thing".

Sure as shit sounds that way.

I thought you jesus freaks couldn't wait to be with "jesus." Since "jesus" won't let you kill yourselves to hurry the process along you should thank the guy who facilitates the meeting.

Unless, of course, deep down you really doubt the whole silly story.

(November 1, 2012 at 7:11 am)Daniel Wrote: "the 'it's my body' argument means they think adults have the right to life and babies don't". Would you believe an argument as weak as that if I presented it? Of course you wouldn't.

Good idea. We can send unwanted babies in this world to the infinitely better other-world!

Does god have a plan?

If yes: does anything go against god's will?

If yes: Murder, rape, etc. are god's will.


Another version is this: God decides when each person will be born and when they will die. People say 'it was his time' or 'it wasn't his time'. Therefore, babies born of rape, are god's will (as some republicans have said) and people who are killed (holocaust, anyone?) were also slain by god's will. This doesn't make it right, it just proves that god is a total [insert obscene descriptor here].

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(November 1, 2012 at 11:17 am)John V Wrote: On what basis do we have rights apart from those God grants us? I've never heard an answer that wasn't blatant special pleading. Consider our treatment of each other and other species when you reply (hint: consider the meat and pest control aisles of the supermarket, and that we freely kill other creatures which we didn't even create merely because they're tasty or annoy us).

Huh? I thought god granted us dominion over the earth. I can't remember who said it, but someone did.

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(November 1, 2012 at 10:34 am)John V Wrote: First, you didn't create your children in the same way that God creates. There's a reason we have words like procreate or beget. A more apt (though still somewhat flawed) analogy would be if you built a robot.

Second, many people do think it's OK to an extent. Consider abortion. Those who are for a woman's right to choose abortion generally don't grant a third party the right to force the woman to have an abortion.

EXACTLY! God created the first two humans, let humanity expand outward for millenia, and then claimed ownership of it all! Wasn't there a parable about reaping what you have sown? I guess that's just more christian hypocrisy, then.

(November 1, 2012 at 2:15 pm)Darkstar Wrote: Does god have a plan?

If yes: does anything go against god's will?

If yes: Murder, rape, etc. are god's will.


Another version is this: God decides when each person will be born and when they will die. People say 'it was his time' or 'it wasn't his time'. Therefore, babies born of rape, are god's will (as some republicans have said) and people who are killed (holocaust, anyone?) were also slain by god's will. This doesn't make it right, it just proves that god is a total [insert obscene descriptor here].

This is a simplistic use of “god’s will,” which is usually broken down into at least two types – sovereign and desirous (some use different terminology and additional types). The argument above correctly notes that nothing goes against God’s sovereign will, but incorrectly implies that all things are part of his desirous will.

Quote:Huh? I thought god granted us dominion over the earth. I can't remember who said it, but someone did.

Er, yes, but the question was, “On what basis do we have rights apart from those God grants us?”

Quote:EXACTLY! God created the first two humans, let humanity expand outward for millenia, and then claimed ownership of it all! Wasn't there a parable about reaping what you have sown? I guess that's just more christian hypocrisy, then.

I can’t address this as I have no clue what the point is.