(November 8, 2012 at 3:03 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: Existence is eternal but that doesn't mean that we've already experienced an eternity of existence

Er, yes, that's exactly what it means.

Quote:Since existence is eternal then there's always more time to go... so it could be ages before the heat death.

If existence is eternal, than any number of ages you can name have already gone by.

Quote:And sorry but the entire concept of there ever being non-existence doesn't make sense. Non-existence can't be anything, non-existence is nothing, non-existence can't exist.

Not sure why you keep bringing this up, as I haven't argued against it.

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Maybe it will help if you answer this question: How old is something that has existed eternally?

"Nothing" is a concept that humans made up. An idea, a fools logic, or even simply just a word. "Nothing" IS essentially all of these "things." "Nothing", as it stands, is a lot of things. It is a laughable, flawed concept that is used to enhance belief in god... Which is even more flawed.
This cannot be denied.

(November 8, 2012 at 3:26 pm)John V Wrote: Er, yes, that's exactly what it means.

"Existence has always existed" means that "there has never been a time when non-existence has existed". It doesn't mean that "existence has already reached a later point in time, of the infinite future time available, where heat death has been experienced".

Existence has always existed, always does exist and always will exist... how does that mean that we've already reached a later point of future time? Eternal or not, we by definition have not reached a later point of future time...

Quote:If existence is eternal, than any number of ages you can name have already gone by.

When they haven't happened yet? "Existence is eternal" implies that non-existence will never exist, it does not imply that all the things that will happen will have already happened before. Why would an eternity imply a cycle? Infinite time just implies that time will keep going on forever and that time has always existed, it doesn't imply that whatever exists now has ever existed before. It implies the that but not the what.

The existence of everything is not the same as the essence of everything. For example: I have always existed, but I have not always been the same.. I have not always been what makes me "me" now, in the sense of my identity. I have not always been alive. We are all made of stars apparently, and so I used to be a star in the sense that my existence was a star, but the point is that my essence is still different despite the fact that I exist in both cases.

Quote:Not sure why you keep bringing this up, as I haven't argued against it.

I'm just pointing out that existence is eternal because non-existence can't exist.

Quote: because non-existence can't exist.

So it's non-existant then?

*Mind blown*

With this truth, you cannot believe in creation logically. If stuff always existed, there is no need for god .

Exactly.

(November 8, 2012 at 12:26 am)SpecUVdust Wrote: I have known many theists that have expressed to me that they believe in their god because it "makes sense where nothing else does." I will offer "sense" to anyone who says such a thing. This thread is intended as help for those people balancing beliefs, not as an assault on "God."

Again, this theory is to help you people realize that there are ways to explain the universe at large without ever needing "divine guidance."

What's compelling to me is not the origin of the universe but the person Jesus of Nazareth. If He is who He says He is, then God exists.

I believe there is compelling evidence to warrant a belief in Jesus as a historic person who did in fact rise from the grave.

Whether or not a snake talked...I don't know...could be literal or it could be a literary device. Either way it doesn't affect the evidence for Jesus which is the focal point for me.

Why is there something rather than nothing? Because the alternative is impossible. Something must exist because nothing can't exist.

The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together- Carl sagan

(November 8, 2012 at 3:51 pm)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: What's compelling to me is not the origin of the universe but the person Jesus of Nazareth. If He is who He says He is, then God exists.

Well, since he says that he is "God" I guess that's a tautology.