(November 21, 2012 at 6:38 am)Daniel Wrote: She wanted to film an underage teenage girl having sex? I know Child Porn is highly stigmatized, but again - big deal, how is it actually any worse than the most extreme "mainstream" gonzo pornography that is filmed in the USA anyway? All she was going to give the world is another piece of exploitative pornography.

No clue where that "invented" position came from? Bolding mine.
I've never heard of this "gonzo" pornography that you speak of. I'm sure if one does some digging they'd be able to find legal porn that uses exploited people. However, most porn, even violent, dehumanizing, and humiliating porn, is created by consenting adults. Child porn is automatically exploitative because children are incapable of giving consent.

(November 21, 2012 at 7:47 am)Waratah Wrote: "I know Child Porn is highly stigmatized, but again - big deal" WTF you are such a dickhead with a comment like that but I should by now expect it. I have noticed that you have not stated that child porn is wrong.

I thought it went without saying. My point was simply why worry about something that is only proportionally small and ignore the huge ongoing presently legal problem??? Or do you not see it as a problem? Child Porn will remain an ongoing problem throughout the world, it'll continue to be distributed through paedophile networks, but it's off the shelves and it's illegal to produce. When are you going to do the same with BDSM - simulated rape, sadism, pain, etc? You don't think producing that kind of material has exactly the same effect on the victimized party as child porn does? Or is it because they're adults you're incapable of acknowledging them as victims?

(November 21, 2012 at 8:10 am)Daniel Wrote: You don't think producing that kind of material has exactly the same effect on the victimized party as child porn does? Or is it because they're adults you're incapable of acknowledging them as victims?

There are adults who enjoy pain with their sex. There are adults who want to be humiliated. There are adults who fantasize about being raped. This doesn't make them victims.

(November 21, 2012 at 8:08 am)festive1 Wrote: No clue where that "invented" position came from? Bolding mine.
I've never heard of this "gonzo" pornography that you speak of. I'm sure if one does some digging they'd be able to find legal porn that uses exploited people. However, most porn, even violent, dehumanizing, and humiliating porn, is created by consenting adults. Child porn is automatically exploitative because children are incapable of giving consent.

So the child porn produced legally in Denmark in the 70's (which as I understand it remains the bulk of the child pornography in existence in the world today) was "automatically exploitative" because "children are incapable of giving consent"? Even though there were no legal restrictions in place preventing them from giving consent?

How much violent pornography is produced with the female party under duress?

(November 21, 2012 at 8:10 am)Daniel Wrote: Child Porn will remain an ongoing problem throughout the world, it'll continue to be distributed through paedophile networks, but it's off the shelves and it's illegal to produce. When are you going to do the same with BDSM - simulated rape, sadism, pain, etc? You don't think producing that kind of material has exactly the same effect on the victimized party as child porn does? Or is it because they're adults you're incapable of acknowledging them as victims?

It is because they are adults that we let them decide if they are victims. Adults get to decide if they want to act in the adult movie industry. If anyone is filming people against their will that is already illegal. If watching porn is harmful then, as with the consumption of alcohol, we leave it to adults to choose their own vices .. so long as there are no victims.

Now you can try to make the point that porn dehumanizes/objectifies women and distorts the men who watch it. But at some point, adults get to decide these things for themselves. Prohibition can amp subverted passions in unintended and unwelcome ways. Being human is a messy business but most societies agree that encouraging our better nature without prohibiting what we think is destructive is the more effective path.

(November 21, 2012 at 6:48 am)Stue Denim Wrote: I don't give a shit what consenting adults do/make believe they are doing.

I'm sorry, maybe I really am too capitalist. What I mean is how does CP harm society more than "legal" (in the USA and not in Australia) Violent/Extreme BDSM pornographic material? Who views CP? That's right paedophiles. Are they paedophiles because they were exposed to CP (monkey-see-monkey-do)? No. Oh maybe you believe the argument that people exposed to CP will be more likely to commit acts of paedophilia? Well wouldn't that mean people exposed to "simulated rape" would also be more likely to commit acts of rape? My argument is the world has a much bigger problem then CP. And that's the extreme stuff that America is producing. Many more people are exposed to that then to child porn.

So WTF is your point Daniel??

You like porn? Gives you an out for your frustrate sex life??

Or that you condone the use of innocent children for the use of you getting your jollies?

*You in this case is not meant as a personal YOU

(November 21, 2012 at 8:19 am)whateverist Wrote: Now you can try to make the point that porn dehumanizes/objectifies women and distorts the men who watch it. But at some point, adults get to decide these things for themselves. Prohibition can amp subverted passions in unintended and unwelcome ways. Being human is a messy business but most societies agree that encouraging our better nature without prohibiting what we think is destructive is the more effective path.

Let me make my point clear. Denmark produced child pornography for 10 years - 1970-1979. It was legal. Then they made it illegal. When is America going to follow Denmark's lead and stop the production of extreme BDSM material? Who needs to see "simulated rape"????? That is clearly not even about sex anymore at that point. I'm not saying pornography should be illegal - far from it, I'm asking when I can expect the most extreme violent stuff that offends the vast majority of porn viewers will be made illegal?

We already have laws against that material, just like we have laws against what Denmark made, but the USA is making it harder for everyone else to enforce those laws and keep out the material that is essentially only legal in America.

Nice deflection there mate.

Let's move the discussion away from the OP onto an entirely different subject.

And utterly fail to address yet more christian hypocrisy and lies.

(November 21, 2012 at 8:28 am)Daniel Wrote:

(November 21, 2012 at 8:19 am)whateverist Wrote: Now you can try to make the point that porn dehumanizes/objectifies women and distorts the men who watch it. But at some point, adults get to decide these things for themselves. Prohibition can amp subverted passions in unintended and unwelcome ways. Being human is a messy business but most societies agree that encouraging our better nature without prohibiting what we think is destructive is the more effective path.

Let me make my point clear. Denmark produced child pornography for 10 years - 1970-1979. It was legal. Then they made it illegal. When is America going to follow Denmark's lead and stop the production of extreme BDSM material? Who needs to see "simulated rape"????? That is clearly not even about sex anymore at that point. I'm not saying pornography should be illegal - far from it, I'm asking when I can expect the most extreme violent stuff that offends the vast majority of porn viewers will be made illegal?

We already have laws against that material, just like we have laws against what Denmark made, but the USA is making it harder for everyone else to enforce those laws and keep out the material that is essentially only legal in America.

It would seem that you do Daniel...otherwise why get upset about adults indulging in BDSM

Sorry mate no get out of jail free card here. (Not between consenting adults) the issue is with innocent children.

Do keep up ... there's a good chappy.