Very simple question, and for both definitions too, so if you claim the "lack of belief" definition then please, what proof and evidence is there to lack a belief?

That's not how burden of proof works. Google it. It'll blow your mind.

(December 30, 2012 at 1:44 am)Annik Wrote: That's not how burden of proof works. Google it. It'll blow your mind.

No excuses please, just answer my question, what proof and evidence is there for a "lack of belief" to be accurate and correct? if there ain't then a lack of belief is unjustified and false.

The lack of evidence for god.

(December 30, 2012 at 1:55 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: The lack of evidence for god.

Nope, God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit of The Bible) is a Scientific, Historical, Philosophical, Moral, Logical, and Personal Fact/Truth.

The Bible(40 Different witnesses, Approx. 60 Accounts, no Contradiction, No error, Scientific Foreknowledge, Historical Foreknowledge, Scientific Accuracy, Historical Accuracy, which means whether you like it or not, these witnesses and their accounts are valid for testing in Court of Law, and as proven All Accounts are Accurate and True.)

Jesus Christ Resurrection is The Only Explanation of the Facts, All other theories have been disproven and rendered Impossible, leaving only One possiblity(Resurrection) which means He really Resurrected from the dead.


The Shroud, no evidence of forgery, not a painting, has blood, x-ray like image, cannot be reproduced with any technology past or present therefore not man made/forged and is supernatural, caused by a burst of UV light from the body, crucified person who resembles Historical Jesus Christ to a tee.

Already with this Jesus Christ is The Lord/God and God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit)

First Uncaused Cause(Scientific and Philosophical Fact, in otherwords overall Fact and if you deny this you must deny "macro-evolution" as this actually is a Proven Fact.)

An Infinite Past of Anything in Succession(Matter, Time, Space, Energy, Change, cause & effect etc) is a Impossibility. if the past was infinite we would never get to the present, count down from Infinity to zero. therefore anything in succession must have a beginning in the finite past. which means it is an indeniable Fact that once nothing existed.(evident by this and the big bang)


Since infinite amount of past cause and effect is impossible it had to start, which means there is a cause which has no cause, The First Uncaused Cause.

The Cause is,

- Uncaused since has no cause

- Beginningless since if began to exist must have a cause.

-Changeless since an Infinite Amount of past change is impossible and a change requires a cause, First Uncaused Cause has no cause

- Timeless since changeless, no change, and no Time.

- Eternal since has always existed, is changeless(ceasing to exist would be a change) and is Timeless.

- Spaceless since Timeless and changeless, things in space are ever changing and are in time.

- Immaterial since Timeless and Changless, matter is ever changing, changeless material doesn't exist, and changeless material cannot cause anything, therefore Immaterial.

-All Powerful since created everything and lesser doesn't produce the greater.

- Of Which No Greater Can Be Conceived since Created Everything.

Now that was part 1,

Part 2,

3 Indeinable Facts

1, Whatever Begins to exists has a cause

2, The Universe began to exist(infinite regression is impossible, big bang, and Borde, Guide, Valienkin Theorem make this an irrefutable Fact.)

3, Therefore The Universe has a Cause to it's existence.

The Cause of The Universe is,

-Spaceless and Timeless, since Created/Started/Caused Space and Time, can therefore exist without Space and Time.

- Since Spaceless and Timeless is Changeless

-Since Changeless is Immaterial, and since doesn't change, The Cause didn't start to exist, making it The First Uncaused Cause.

The First Uncaused Cause is The Cause of The Universe.

Now time to prove that this is without a shadow of a doubt God(which means whether "macro-evolution" happened or not, God exists and you have to accept that)

1. That fits God's description to a tee.

2. The First Uncaused Cause is The Direct Cause of The Universe, God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit) is a First Uncaused Cause who Directly Caused The Universe.

3, Is Immaterial therefore can either be a Mind or Abstract Object such as numbers(The Mind is immaterial and we'll get to that later), Abstract objects cause nothing, therefore a Mind.

4, Fine Tuning, The Universe is so fine tuned for life that there's only 3 possibilities as to why,

Law, Chance, or Design. Cannot be law or chance, since Law can be different and Chance is Extremely Improbable that it's Factual it didn't happen that way, therefore Obviously Designed.

5, Only 2 types of causes. Accidential/Mindless or Intentional/Mind, Accidents require a prior cause, therefore cannot be accidential therefore caused on Purpose, God exists.

6, All "naturalistic" theories are Impossible.

1, "naturalism" is disproven by The Universe being caused so by default Supernatural and Immaterial exists.

2, Nothing existed and nothing causes nothing, the "nothing causes something" Quantum Mechanics argument proposed by w-child has been thrown in the fire with these facts,

1, The Quantum Vaccum isn't empty space.

2, Nothing cannot cause something with this fact,

The Cause of an effect must be equivelent or greater than it's effect,

Nothing has no properties, something has properties. so for nothing to cause something it would need the properties to do so, so if nothing caused something, it needs to properties of something rendering it to be something instead of nothing! and if nothing caused something it would need the properties from something eternal rendering it again not nothing.

Nothing can only cause, nothing.

and the "universe caused itself" argument(whoever posed this argument needs their liscense revoked, is automatically void as if the universe caused itself it would have already needed to exist!.

And lastly as proven in #5 can only have been caused on purpose.

There is no naturalistic explanation as 1, Supernatural exist, 2, it's impossible for nothing to cause something and 3, it is an impossiblity for The First Uncaused Cause to cause on accident.

#7, Creation ex nihilo proves The Bible is even more Scientifically Accurate and Correct, Creation ex Nihilo proves God exists and God is The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit who is 1 God that is 3 Persons.

Dualism


1. If the mind was the brain or any material then everything we do, all thoughts, actions, plans, will, cognitive functions etc would be accidential, rendering free will nonexistent. Free Will exists therefore the mind cannot be material.

you therefore have 3 choices,

1, No Director(mind), rendering nerve signals random, which is false since we do have a mind and do direct our nerve signals, that is a fact.

2, Material Director which is false since it would be the same as no director because there would be no direction to energy signals.

3, Immaterial Director where nerve signals can be directed.

2. material is mindless, when you laugh, do your cheeks or hands, or face know what your laughing about? no, they're just a piece of meat, it knows nothing, such as your eyeballs, fingers etc.

3. Immaterial Properties exist, Love, Emotions, Abstract Objects(Numbers), Data, Feelings, Beliefs, Delusions, Fantasies, all exist, yet aren't material.

For example, what is material about the data you're reading off this sentence? Physically it's energy signals hitting your screen, now unless you say the data isn't real, then it's Immaterial.

4, Thoughts are not material, and if they are material whatever causes them cannot be material.

Think of a pink giant elephant, now if your head was cut open would we find that elephant? no. can anyone hear what you're thinking? nope, it's not material.

When you talk to someone, are you talking to a person or just flesh? if you say the latter than you might as well say you can talk to the wall and be perfectly fine.

5. Color is not material.

6, Here's an experiment, Hit your hand on the desk, feel the pain? now it is a fact that you are not your hand, if we cut off your hand and the nerves in it you would be incapable of feeling it. this means the reason you feel your hand is because of a connection to you(can be brain or Immaterial Spirit, I'm allowing both for experiment)

Now lets assume your mind is your brain as most "atheist" assume, and the brain is the connection to the hand, now if your brain is what is allowing you to feel your hand, then that is impossible, if you're your brain, when your hand gets hit, you'd feel the pain in your head, not your hand. now you cannot say the brain sending energy signals to the hand is causing the pain since you aren't your hand! we can cut it off and you won't be able to feel it anymore.

The Only Possibility is that your hand is connected to your brain and you are an Immaterial Substance that can feel the hand, otherwise there is no possiblity of feeling your hand.

7, Third, I believe it is important to note that some of the world’s foremost neuroscientists have believed that the mind is immaterial. These neuroscientists have been well aware that stimulating the brain can produce some intriguing psychological results. One of the pioneers in the field of neuroscience was Wilder Penfield. In his fascinating book The Mystery of the Mind, he writes the following:


When I have caused a conscious patient to move his hand by applying an electrode to the motor cortex of one hemisphere, I have often asked him about it. Invariably his response was: ‘I didn’t do that. You did.’ When I caused him to vocalize, he said: ‘I didn’t make that sound. You pulled it out of me.’ When I caused the record of the stream of consciousness to run again and so presented to him the record of his past experience, he marveled that he should be conscious of the past as well as of the present. He was astonished that it should come back to him so completely, with more detail than he could possibly recall voluntarily. He assumed at once that, somehow, the surgeon was responsible for the phenomenon, but he recognized the details as those of his own past experience. (76)


Penfield goes on to note that “There is no place in the cerebral cortex where electrical stimulation will cause a patient . . . to decide” (77). This is consistent with my point that choices are undetermined events with a teleological explanation. In light of his work as a neuroscientist, Penfield concludes the following: “For my own part, after years of striving to explain the mind on the basis of brain-action alone, I have come to the conclusion that it is simpler (and far easier and logical) if one adopts the hypothesis that our being does consist of two fundamental elements” (80).



Read more: God and Mind/Body Dualism | Reasonable Faith

8, Last but not least, Scientific Fact that every cell in our bodies die and regenerate with new cells, that by every 7 years we are completely new material beings. now I know I'm the same person I was in 1998, I'm the same guy who's been through 2 1/2 new material bodies already yet I'm the same mind, therefore it is a Scientific Fact that human beings are Immaterial beings/Spirits controlling material bodies.

"materialism", "atheism", "agnostics", etc are all dead already without even going into "macro-evolution.

Morality.

Morals are Immaterial Properties, under "naturalism" Immaterial wouldn't exist.

Under "naturalism", things such as rape would have no reason for being wrong and could actually be justified.

rape is Objectively Wrong, there is a reason for that. under "naturalism" there is no reason and it would be justified under "naturalism", therefore "naturalism" is fairy tales, Therefore God must Necessarily exist.

"macro-evolution"

"macro-evolution" cannot explain morals.

"macro-evolution" is impossible.

People base an assumption that multiple bouts of Micro-Evolution produces "macro", Micro means within a species. dogs evolving will only ever be, dogs.

Irreducible Complexity,

Heart, lungs, Kidney, Liver, Brain, Veins, Blood, etc take one out and everything fails, must have been given at once.

and

Darwinism Refuted.com

Apparent Design, Symmetry, and Immaterial Properties such as Data(DNA), Immune System, Apparent Design that even "atheist"/"evolutionist" don't deny!(They even say, it "just appears designed", Nothing appears Intelligently Designed Unless, Intelligently Designed, throw that logic in the fire.)

Billions of transitional fossils needed, even if fossils are hard to find as most "atheist" say, I'll allow that excuse, however under that excuse Millions are needed, still aren't a million, "macro-evolution" is false.

"macro-evolution" is incapable with "naturalism", God must exist for "macro-evolution" to happen, therefore "macro-evolution" along with the other evidence didn't happen. therefore advocates for "macro-evolution" cannot be "atheist" and if they are an "atheist"/"naturalist" then they cannot be an advocate of "macro-evolution"

With that said God Factually Exists, and God is The Trinity of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. Time to prepare for Eternity.


So now the "lack of evidence" is an invalid answer to my question, so I ask again, what proof and evidence is there for "atheism" to be accurate and correct?

Nice copy and paste job.

But even a child could see that you havent provided a single bit of empirical evidence.

(December 30, 2012 at 1:42 am)SavedByChrist94 Wrote: Very simple question, and for both definitions too, so if you claim the "lack of belief" definition then please, what proof and evidence is there to lack a belief?

Because none of you jesus spouting assholes have ever demonstrated that your boy (or any other god ever invented by the mind of men) is real. If you find some evidence worthy of the name please be sure to come back and share it.

(December 30, 2012 at 2:09 am)Minimalist Wrote: [quote='SavedByChrist94' pid='379028' dateline='1356846136']
Very simple question, and for both definitions too, so if you claim the "lack of belief" definition then please, what proof and evidence is there to lack a belief?

(December 30, 2012 at 2:09 am)Minimalist Wrote: Because none of you jesus spouting assholes

How do you know that I am an "a"? that is bigoted of you to assume that because I'm a Christian that I am an "a", I could easily classify you with the westboro baptist "church."(aka a bunch of "atheist" propaganda tools)

(December 30, 2012 at 2:09 am)Minimalist Wrote: have ever demonstrated that your boy

Why are you so threatened and condesending, relax... take your problems of life at yourself, not The One(Jesus Christ) who could give you it.

(December 30, 2012 at 2:09 am)Minimalist Wrote: (or any other god ever invented by the mind of men) is real.

Before we start, why write what you did in the bold? shows anger and hostility, you'll get over your teenage rebellion...

(December 30, 2012 at 2:09 am)Minimalist Wrote: Now, If you find some evidence worthy of the name please be sure to come back and share it.

All your possible embellishment theories will be Impossible.

Going through every "naturalistic" myth and will leave The Resurrection as The Only Explanation, not best or most probable but Only Explanation.

proving that Jesus Christ existed and there was an empty tomb factually follows that He rose from the dead.

myth theory -

Different points of views, no contradiction from The Apostles means events happened. miracles are authentic as they are written in witness and have evidence of addition, exaggeration, or lies.

Josephus proves Jesus Christ was crucified, no matter what you say this man was a Jew, had no biased or presupposition.

Nazareth Inscription proves empty tomb.

Women found the tomb empty, this irrefutable, criteria of embarrassment

Matthew 28:11-18 proves without a doubt there was an empty tomb, Matthew refutes the Jews, no matter what you say or what you think he REFUTES what the Jews were saying, which proves, the Jews were claiming they stole the tomb. a common presupposition and excuse.

My fellow Christians told the truth of The Resurrection and the Jews spread the stolen tomb myth, either way EMPTY TOMB, of who? Jesus Christ, why was there a tomb? He was crucified, why? because the Jews thought He committed blasphemy why was there an empty tomb? we will get to that next. Apostles died for their beliefs and appearances are genuine(will get to it next)

"myth theory" is long gone and dead. if you EVER claim myth then you are a presuppositional delusional hypocritical, the words could go on and on.

myth "theory" is now an impossible myth.


conspiracy theory - 1, No one could have stolen the tomb as it was blocked by roman guards.

2, Apostles had nothing to gain, criteria of embarrassment, they were shamed and were against all evil, sin.

3, They died for their beliefs, 11 of the 12 Apostles died for their beliefs, no one dies for a known lie, they really believed in The Resurrection added that with the facts of the appearances.

4, Appearances to Women, proves Apostles were telling the truth

5, James, the brother of Jesus Christ in The Gospels is a skeptic, outside of it he's a believer(Letters, Church, and Josephus) Jesus had to have appeared to him.

6, Paul, a prosecutor of Christians becomes a Christian himself and becomes a leading preacher of Christianity going through all kinds of suffering and ultimately death for his beliefs.

7, Apostles believed in The Resurrection despite every predispostion to the contrary, no one believed The Messiah was going to die, be God, or much less Resurrect from the dead. no one believed in The Resurrection until the end of world, the general Resurrection.

Apostles believed The Resurrection happened, myth and conspiracy theories are now myths, if you want to argue you can only use your last 3 "naturalistic" myths when arguing with me because the myth and conspiracy theories are dead myths now, using them or believing them exposes you as a hypocrite as those are now Impossible Explanations.


Now we have a few facts,

Jesus Christ was crucified
There was an Empty Tomb
Jesus Christ appeared alive after His death to several people
Apostles really believed in The Resurrection


last 3 which are easily refutatable.

"twin brother/lookalike" theory - Apostles knew Jesus, saw Him perform more miracles, Empty Tomb and no one could have stolen the tomb, had same wounds, no known twin brother as James, Jesus half brother, would take that into consideration. and theory is a stretch.

"twin brother/lookalike" theory is a myth

swoon theory - Apostles saw Jesus Christ die, He was anointed, stabbed in chest pouring blood and water confirming death, romans made sure you die when crucified, even if survived would have been impossible to escape tomb, would've died later, would not convince apostles, and Jesus Christ Ascended.

swoon theory is now a myth

last theory that if I disprove I prove The Resurrection happened.

hallucination theory - Apostles were in their right minds, died for their beliefs, hallucinations are fast and quick, Thomas for example put his hand in Jesus side, you don't have multiple hallucinations about the same thing, and finally multiple people do not hallucinate about the same thing.

EVERY Single "naturalistic" "theory" has been made a myth of.

There is one Irrefutable Explanation, not the best but The Only Explanation is that Jesus Christ died on the cross and Resurrected from the dead, therefore proving everything in The Bible as a fact.

Jesus Christ Resurrected from the dead.

add that with The Shroud which has no evidence of forgery, not a painting, cannot be reproduced with any type of technology, and caused by a burst of light from the dead body causing an image like a photography.

With The facts of The Bible's inerrancy and no contradiction, The Sense it makes, reliable Testimony/Accounts, Scientific Accuracy and foreknowledge, Historical Accuracy and foreknowledge, God's existence and failure of other religions making Christianity the only factual possibility, Physical evidence in The Shroud and Only Explanation being The Resurrection, it is indeniable, God Exists, Jesus Christ is Lord, Our Savior who died for our sins on the cross, Jesus Christ is the 2nd person of God, and that God is The Trinity of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

---

(December 30, 2012 at 2:08 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: Nice copy and paste job.

But even a child could see that you havent provided a single bit of empirical evidence.

Copy and paste, my words, or king kongs words doesn't matter if it proves it proves, don't like it? too bad. also don't be a hypocrite, you didn't refute anything.

Quote:How do you know that I am an "a"?

Reading your bullshit, it just sort of came to me.

Call it a lucky guess on my part.

HEY!!!

stop to copy and paste!!!!!!!!

If you have posted something, there is no need to post it again!!!!!!!!!!