(January 1, 2013 at 7:12 am)Zen Badger Wrote:

(January 1, 2013 at 7:05 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote: Really??? Don't you want to live forever. Would you trust a God who could not raise the dead.

And what does that have to do with your outright lies regarding bringing the dead back to life?

Hi,

what I am suggesting is if there is a God, as I know there is, what is so strange about the claim that the dead can be raised. It is 100% logical that God can raise the dead.

FAH Wrote:Really??? Don't you want to live forever. Would you trust a God who could not raise the dead.

Blearch!

What a disgusting thought!! And how can one trust something that exists only in your mind??

(January 1, 2013 at 7:17 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote:

(January 1, 2013 at 7:12 am)Zen Badger Wrote: And what does that have to do with your outright lies regarding bringing the dead back to life?

Hi,

what I am suggesting is if there is a God, as I know there is, what is so strange about the claim that the dead can be raised. It is 100% logical that God can raise the dead.

No, you made a straight claim that people you personally know were able to bring the dead back to life.

And I am calling you a damned liar.

(January 1, 2013 at 2:21 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote:

(December 31, 2012 at 8:23 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Also, I want to speak to the doctors that reported people being resurrected from the dead. If that doesn't scream "strike them off the medical register" I don't know what does.

What is so strange about a God who can raise the dead.

It's impossible until proven otherwise. Sorry, but the laws of nature are pretty clear.

All I ask for is evidence, nothing more. Is that so bad?

(January 1, 2013 at 2:21 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote: In the circles I frequent this sort of thing happens often, not with me personally but with pastors I know of. If a person truely believes in God they believe he can raise the dead. Jesus said in the bible we would do the same works he did one of the things Jesus did was raise the dead.

A lovely story, but irrelevant. Witnesses to so called miracles are no evidence of said miracles. Hard, testable evidence is all I accept.

A hypothetical for you that uses your own logic:

A man you don't know comes up to you in the street and says you have contracted a rare form of an antibiotic resistant bacteria (let's say c.diff for recognition purposes). He asks for $100 so that he can give you an anti-biotic that he says will cure you.

Do you accept his word on blind faith, or would you require evidence that his claims were true?

(January 1, 2013 at 2:21 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote: I hope one day you come to your senses, and look at the evidence rather than express your opinions on facts.

I am truely sorry that you think I am doing this when it is in fact you who are doing it.

I was brought up in the UK and educated at an excellent school and an excellent university thereafter. One thing that was drilled into me was never take anything at face value. Always ask for facts to back up the claims. Thus far, I can see nonevidence to back yours up, merely empty posturing and an increasingly negative tone towards me.

All I've done is ask for some evidence for your claims, nothing more. You can't honestly believe you've presented some can you?

(January 1, 2013 at 2:21 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote: What more can a Christian do than record miracles,

record FACTS & EVIDENCE.

(January 1, 2013 at 2:21 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote: you say they should be struck of the register because they say they have a recorded example of a dead raising.

Where is this evidence? A doctor saying he 'saw someone being raised from the dead'? Where are the ECG scans? Where is the neuroscientists opinion, or the cardio-surgeons notes? Where is the EVIDENCE?

See my hypothetical above. I am not in the business of accepting eye witnesses accounts of scientific miracles without evidence to back them up, and neither should you be. That's not how science works, not how medicine works, not how reality works. Im sorry, but if we're going to get into a discussion on facts, lets start there.

(January 1, 2013 at 2:21 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote: Why don't you start to believe facts rather than sprout of your atheist opinions on people.

I have type 1 diabetes. This has been proven to me by a consultant endocrinologist who laid out to me what tests they were going to perform to prove this was the case (keytone levels, HBA1C test, bloods to determine whether my eyelets of langerhans had been cannibalised by my own immune system).

The results of these tests were plain for me to see; I have T1 diabetes. The symptoms explained the results of the tests.

EVIDENCE works great when it exists and can be used to back up the claim. I have no idea what an 'atheist opinion' is, so ill assume its a sleight of hand insult.

(January 1, 2013 at 2:21 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote: What sins do you commit that are so great you are prepared to ignore facts.

sleight of hand insult. thanks.

(January 1, 2013 at 2:21 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote: Christians are people too with brains and an interlect we just know what God has done in our lives, and the lives of others. What evidence do you have to support your claims that these people are crazy, it is just your opinion, nothing more.

I totally agree. Christians are people, and what I am stating is my opinion. However, my evidence that they are crazy is the LACK OF EVIDENCE they are providing to support their claims.

It is not sinful, nor is it delusional, to critique and question someone who believes they have seen a miracle.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". I have seen and read none, so by virtue I am skeptical and will continue to question and critique the claims until evidence is provided.

EDITED for spelling (iPad!)

(January 1, 2013 at 7:59 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: All I'm asking for is evidence, the same evidence you would ask for should a stranger come up to you in the street and claim you were about to die from a deadly bacterial infection that was untreatable save for his own medical cure that only he has access to. That's it.

As far as I am concerned doctors documenting cases of divine healings, with before and after shots, is enough evidence for me. And there are enough test cases there to say that healing happens frequently for people, it is not a one off isolated incodent. Many cases of healing go unreported, as a case in point the person I prayed for.

You said you are sick with Diabeties, would you like me to pray for you, God may well heal you and you will have your evidence first hand.

You are making a gross irrational leap when you go from a person being (apparently) healed straight to goddidit. Even if you listed a thousand, a million, cases of sickness of one sort or another somehow being cured, that's nowhere near evidence that a god was responsible. And you don't even have that - all you have are anecdotes, urban myths at best. That you find them convincing enough to be sufficient evidence for you merely demonstrates the flimsiness of your beliefs, ie they rely on the flimsiest and the most absurd of stories to make them real.

(January 1, 2013 at 11:18 pm)Stimbo Wrote: ie they rely on the flimsiest and the most absurd of stories to make them real.

I am sorry you think what God does is absurd. Well you are living on shaky ground, one day the flood of death will come, and will you be ready for it's journey, you can ignore what people tell you for perfect evidence, but you may never get what you demand. I am no fool, I know who I am, I know what I have experienced. I trust others who have experienced the same. What do you want me to become a drinking, porno loving, fool. Or should I remain a God fearing husband, who experiences the miraculous often. I choose to stay with what I have. You can go to hell if you want, ignoring all the facts for your precious double blind studies, but I choose to live in the truth, and respect God's law and rule.

2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;