(January 3, 2013 at 11:40 pm)RichardP Wrote: Isn't it by the size of the church building? Especially if service is broadcast on TV on Sunday morning, and it has an awesome music ministry! (Check out that organ)

These people are congregated to listen to your god boy or they assemble to listen to AC/DC...which is more believable?...

Mark 13:13 Wrote:no i'm just making it plain that if i'm going to take this serious enough to try and flesh out the subject; I'm not doing it as a debate although I will expect points to be contested but its not about winning and loosing and as you can read from my replies to previous posters I want the half wits out. I'm sure this may settle into an interesting discussion once we do but if they persist then i won't bother to continue as I have other irons in the fire including a good movie by the TV.

It's not about winning and losing? Yeah, I agree that it shouldn't be seen as a contest per se, but I think you forget the nature of the subject. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I take it you think prophets literally have received divine revelation from the being that created you and I. I think it's to be expected that you'll recieve comments in return that feel like you're debating because your claims aren't some light-hearted personal sentiments but a legitimate take on reality, which we all know, you want us to adopt.

---

P.s. sorry if I came across a little harsh, but I feel like I know exactly what you're doing because I've been there. I would try and approach atheists with what seemed like a passive discussion as a way of lowering their guard while subtely and somewhat aggressively injecting the doctrine of my church.

My old self has made my current self treat every theist argument in the same way; question it and dissect it to see if there's reason behind it. Of course, I do this in a civil manner, but don't expect me (or maybe anyone else) to NOT ask the tough questions and just agree with what you propose.

(January 3, 2013 at 7:56 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: this was the then in someways the very thing that allowed/forced me to question everything I was taught aware that at some point even the people we should be able to trust may be led astray to.

Even now the Issue is still one of the big 3 questions of my life in my faith but never my belief in GOD.

So although there I'm not making any statements to answer the Question rather i'm throwing out a starting position to see how the thread develops

Why waste any time even thinking about it? Jesus weighed in on this subject:

....also in Matthew;

By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

--------------------

(January 4, 2013 at 3:22 am)ronedee Wrote:

(January 3, 2013 at 7:56 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: this was the then in someways the very thing that allowed/forced me to question everything I was taught aware that at some point even the people we should be able to trust may be led astray to.

Even now the Issue is still one of the big 3 questions of my life in my faith but never my belief in GOD.

So although there I'm not making any statements to answer the Question rather i'm throwing out a starting position to see how the thread develops

Why waste any time even thinking about it? Jesus weighed in on this subject:

....also in Matthew;

By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

--------------------

(January 3, 2013 at 10:01 pm)cato123 Wrote:

(January 3, 2013 at 8:13 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: Why not bring something to the thread that's usefull for the conversation to continue.

I pointed out the simple fact that even you acknowledge that god botherers can't discern between true prophets and false prophets. This renders your argument, that the only way to know god is through his chosen prophets, useless.

Quote: If you think it's all bullshit then why waste your time even commenting.

Not commenting on your particular brand of bullshit (I recall using the word horseshit, minor detail) might be misconstrued as tacit approval of the same.

I never said you can't know only that we need to be really carefull and that even the Bible warns us how tricky the issue will become the closer we come to the end.

As far as Not commenting being tacit approval ; don't bother I will take it as default now that when you don't comment on any of the threads started by me that that is to be seen as your belief thats its all HORSESHIT if thats the only comment you want to make.

---

(January 3, 2013 at 10:09 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:how do you tell the difference between a false prophet and a 'genuinely' god-powered one

It's quite simple. Any dickhead who claims to be genuinely god-powered is a fucking liar and anyone who listens to him is a fucking moron.

See?

leaving GOD out of question ; do you believe anyone can have the ability access knowledge through a supernatural means?

---

(January 3, 2013 at 11:40 pm)RichardP Wrote:

(January 3, 2013 at 7:56 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: how do you tell the difference between a false prophet and a 'genuinely' god-powered one

Isn't it by the size of the church building? Especially if service is broadcast on TV on Sunday morning, and it has an awesome music ministry! (Check out that organ)

No

---

(January 3, 2013 at 11:42 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: I still believe that the prophets of the Bible were nothing more than musicians. I made a thread about this and it has practically been unchallenged: http://atheistforums.org/thread-16131.html

CAN I PREFACE THIS THAT SHOULD WE BELIEVE SO AS TO LIMIT POINTLESS WELL MANNERED PROTESTS WHY SHOULD WE BELIEVE THE BIBLE AS THAT IS NOT THE PURPOSE OF THE THREAD. ( ps not directed at you Fallen. )

Interesting and clearly for musicians the inspiration for the prophesies may have come via the language and channels suiting them. But other prophets clearly deal more with imagery such as John the apostle and Daniel. This does not mean that every musician is a prophet but as for me I find music can move me in a very powerful way so that God should use that as a channel for some is no surprise.

(January 3, 2013 at 9:00 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: Well my cats an atheist too by that definition and my cat has more sense as it wouldn't waste its time on anything it wasn't interested in. If you are only here to horse around i suggest you grow up, and troll elsewhere or better still if you get your kicks from trying to wind folks up then grow some balls and run around some Muslim are with a placard with Mohammed is a ..... whatever you want to put last on.

Boy are you stupid...

1. Learn how to spot a joke.
2. You completely misunderstood me because of your failure to spot a joke.
3. Stop being so serious.


Anyway, I am here for everything other than religious debate, because I have been there and done that. I lost interest in it due to you guys not having anything new to bring to the table and spouting the same old crap.

Mark 13:13 Wrote:Interesting and clearly for musicians the inspiration for the prophesies may have come via the language and channels suiting them. But other prophets clearly deal more with imagery such as John the apostle and Daniel. This does not mean that every musician is a prophet but as for me I find music can move me in a very powerful way so that God should use that as a channel for some is no surprise.

I invest quite a lot of time into music. I used to play in a Christian band but it's strange how our prophesying didn't achieve any results.

On a side note, how ironic is it that God will use music when it says that Lucifer was the master of music...

(January 3, 2013 at 8:49 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote:

(January 3, 2013 at 8:32 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Indeed, any message perceived to be in its pages must be a powerful one, since it's been described as the greatest atheist recruiting tool ever created. I'd heard that it was pulled from bookshops in China (I think) a few years ago, due to complaints about its violent and pornographic content. Probably apocryphal, but what a beautiful world it would be if it were true.

If only what you say was true then given how long its been around i,m surprised there are any Theists left. But you are correct Christianity would have been crushed out at its start if it was based on only a book given both the Jews and the Romans did all they could do to kill it of. For some reason in face of death death and persecution it survived and the weakest of the weak turned over the superpower of the day with nothing but Words and of course the power of Jesus Christ "And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it." the church is not dead and after 2000 years that prophesy stands.

If Constantine had picked a different religion to back, its adherents would today be remarking on how miraculous it is their particular religion/scripture has persisted for so long.

---

(January 3, 2013 at 9:00 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote:

frankiej Wrote:As an atheist I have a lack of belief in gods

Well my cats an atheist too by that definition and my cat has more sense as it wouldn't waste its time on anything it wasn't interested in. If you are only here to horse around i suggest you grow up, and troll elsewhere or better still if you get your kicks from trying to wind folks up then grow some balls and run around some Muslim are with a placard with Mohammed is a ..... whatever you want to put last on.

You don't have to be THAT Christian, the one that comes to mind when we reflect on whether Christians come anywhere close to living up to their propaganda.

And if he was running around with a placard with 'Jesus is a ....' your challenge might have made the slightest bit of sense. All he did was make a comment on a forum, and it's easily verifiable that Islam fares no better here when IT is discussed.

Mister Agenda Wrote:If Constantine had picked a different religion to back, its adherents would today be remarking on how miraculous it is their particular religion/scripture has persisted for so long.

---

Well if the survival of Christianity was down to Roman emperors it should never have survived to Constantine and of course Constantine died and we later had a guy called Diocletian he was hardly a friend now was he.

---

(January 4, 2013 at 11:23 am)FallentoReason Wrote:

Mark 13:13 Wrote:Interesting and clearly for musicians the inspiration for the prophesies may have come via the language and channels suiting them. But other prophets clearly deal more with imagery such as John the apostle and Daniel. This does not mean that every musician is a prophet but as for me I find music can move me in a very powerful way so that God should use that as a channel for some is no surprise.

I invest quite a lot of time into music. I used to play in a Christian band but it's strange how our prophesying didn't achieve any results.

On a side note, how ironic is it that God will use music when it says that Lucifer was the master of music...

Oddly enough I only seen that title for Lucifer relatively lately but as you would know from my perspective no creation can be greater than the Creator. But that wasn't all Lucifer was a master at.

As far as Your band, not every musician is a prophet of God and even if a musician was a prophet not every piece played would necessarily be prophetic. If I did find a musical prophet that every piece played was prophetic then I would make sure they were banned from playing "Its raining men" somewhere in there there could be a fun thread.

Hinduism is the oldest major religion still being practiced today. Is its survival indicative of divine intervention? Christianity had a 500 year head-start on Islam, and it's already grown to surpass Catholicism and Protestantism, just not both combined...yet. Not to mention its dominance in the holy lands of the Middle East. Does that mean Allah is helping them out? Or does that sort of thing only count when talking about Christianity, because Christianity is a special snowflake?