Well, public schools are 100% public sector, and indoctrinating the young is an essential part to a socialist state. A true conservative/peaceful country would not have compulsory education ergo public education is socialist by definition.

Not every nations which has a public education sector is a "socialist state"

learn some history and maybe even consider learning a bit about the thing you think to know so much about.

(January 27, 2013 at 12:43 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: Not every nations which has a public education sector is a "socialist state"

learn some history and maybe even consider learning a bit about the thing you think to know so much about.

History in your socialist schools? no thanks.

Using violence to take from the productive classes to redistribute to public is the definition of socialism. And nothing you can say will change that basic reality, so I suggest you save your time.

nope that is the definition of communism, communism is defined through violent revolution to change systems.

socialism through reform to change systems.

both follow marxist ideals

Must I teach you your own shit!?

Our schools arent socialist, they are productive and have produced the strongest economy in Europe and fourth largest economy in the world.

ohhh yeah, you are and idiot.

(January 27, 2013 at 12:49 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: ohhh yeah, you are and idiot.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

People in churches shouldn't be trusted with little children.

(January 27, 2013 at 12:50 pm)BGChuckLee Wrote: People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Germans build with steel, I can throw as much as I want.

Buy the way, I gave a response, you only gave this pittyfull piece of rethoric for 9 year olds.

Anything of any importants to the argument to say? like a counterargument?


Do I have to get out my keys again?

Ah, geeze, the idiot is back. I don't know if I should be glad I have a moron to troll or if I should just turn off my computer and walk away.

(January 27, 2013 at 12:46 pm)BGChuckLee Wrote:

(January 27, 2013 at 12:43 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: Not every nations which has a public education sector is a "socialist state"

learn some history and maybe even consider learning a bit about the thing you think to know so much about.

History in your socialist schools? no thanks.

Because a reading of history, as it actually happened, shows we have quite a bit of 'socialism' in our nation. I mean, hell, it could easily be interepreted that the original articles of confederation failed simply because they didn't have enough socialism. The right wing crazy version of history is the one that's regularly debunked. They like to claim, for example, that the Boston Tea Party was a protest against government taxation when, in reality, it was a protest against a private corporation getting preferential treatment from te government. They like to claim that the Civil War was all about state's rights when the right that the southern states were most concerned about was the right to turn a person into a piece of property. They claim we never spent ourselves out of financial problems and, yet, that's exactly how we got out of the Great Depression.

Quote:Using violence to take from the productive classes to redistribute to public is the definition of socialism. And nothing you can say will change that basic reality, so I suggest you save your time.

We could make the same argument about funding for police, fire fighters, road maitenance, courts, military, prisons or a host of other publicly funded programs. If you claim is "X is bad because it's socialism," couldn't X be police just as easily as it could be schools or social security?

It's extremely simplistic to look at our nation and say we've always been capitalist. Even the founding fathers incorporated some decidedly socialist systems into our nation. Did you know John Adams incorporated a health care plan for sailors that would be the height of socialism today?

The reason we pay for things like this is simple: it makes all our lives better. You want to see what happens in a nation with no government? We have a place like that; it's called Somalia.

I'm going to go a step further, though, and say that a good education needs to be a responsibility of our people. If we're going to have a democracy where people make decisions that determine how our nation is governed, the people who vote should at least understand the issues enough to make educated decisions. For example, I may still disagree with Tiberius here about economic/political issues, but he can give intelligent, rational responses about the issues. Even though I disagree with him, I can respect him; you don't have that luxury, Chucky.

(January 27, 2013 at 1:09 pm)TaraJo Wrote: Ah, geeze, the idiot is back. I don't know if I should be glad I have a moron to troll or if I should just turn off my computer and walk away.

(January 27, 2013 at 12:46 pm)BGChuckLee Wrote: History in your socialist schools? no thanks.

Because a reading of history, as it actually happened, shows we have quite a bit of 'socialism' in our nation. I mean, hell, it could easily be interepreted that the original articles of confederation failed simply because they didn't have enough socialism. The right wing crazy version of history is the one that's regularly debunked. They like to claim, for example, that the Boston Tea Party was a protest against government taxation when, in reality, it was a protest against a private corporation getting preferential treatment from te government. They like to claim that the Civil War was all about state's rights when the right that the southern states were most concerned about was the right to turn a person into a piece of property. They claim we never spent ourselves out of financial problems and, yet, that's exactly how we got out of the Great Depression.

Quote:Using violence to take from the productive classes to redistribute to public is the definition of socialism. And nothing you can say will change that basic reality, so I suggest you save your time.

We could make the same argument about funding for police, fire fighters, road maitenance, courts, military, prisons or a host of other publicly funded programs. If you claim is "X is bad because it's socialism," couldn't X be police just as easily as it could be schools or social security?

It's extremely simplistic to look at our nation and say we've always been capitalist. Even the founding fathers incorporated some decidedly socialist systems into our nation. Did you know John Adams incorporated a health care plan for sailors that would be the height of socialism today?

The reason we pay for things like this is simple: it makes all our lives better. You want to see what happens in a nation with no government? We have a place like that; it's called Somalia.

I'm going to go a step further, though, and say that a good education needs to be a responsibility of our people. If we're going to have a democracy where people make decisions that determine how our nation is governed, the people who vote should at least understand the issues enough to make educated decisions. For example, I may still disagree with Tiberius here about economic/political issues, but he can give intelligent, rational responses about the issues. Even though I disagree with him, I can respect him; you don't have that luxury, Chucky.

Thank you for your detailed writing.

I do not consider myself right wing, as I am against taxation of all sorts- both poor and rich should not be assisted by fruits of state violence, their shouldn't be violence to begin with. Preferably I would not want to see government agents of any sort, be it police, firemen, military, etc. These things should be privatised, and not funded by violence. But I would be extremely happy as is, if we had only front line services, rather than welfare states of poor and rich. So I would be satisfied with a minarchist society. I am not against government for being government, I am against violence of all sorts- the Government just happens to have a monopoly on violence- Wheras Somalia's violence is monopolised by gangs/militias- neither of which is any sort of ideal for me.

True capitalism has unfortunately never existed in a country, since it is human nature to be violent. Although I will never see the fruits of my labour, trying to reduce violence, and increase voluntarism- so did those that campaigned against slavery- they never saw a slave free country, but they carried on. This is what Jesus would do, he would carry on.

As for my simplicity, I prefer to explain things simply, since if you can't explain something in simple terms, you don't understand it at all. It takes a genius to turn something complex, into something simple.

(January 27, 2013 at 1:32 pm)BGChuckLee Wrote: I do not consider myself right wing, as I am against taxation of all sorts- both poor and rich should not be assisted by fruits of state violence, their shouldn't be violence to begin with. Preferably I would not want to see government agents of any sort, be it police, firemen, military, etc. These things should be privatised, and not funded by violence. But I would be extremely happy as is, if we had only front line services, rather than welfare states of poor and rich. So I would be satisfied with a minarchist society. I am not against government for being government, I am against violence of all sorts- the Government just happens to have a monopoly on violence- Wheras Somalia's violence is monopolised by gangs/militias- neither of which is any sort of ideal for me.

That's part of the problem, Chuckie. Eliminate the government and there's a power vacuum and it usually gets filled by the most undesirable sorts out there. Going without government sounds nice, but I don't think it's realistic; at least not on a macro scale. On a small scale, you can have small communities without any official laws, but the larger your community gets, the more difficult that is to pull off. Have you ever read Common Sense by Thomas Paine? He goes into a lot of this, right here. The big difference is that Thomas Paine wrote that phamplet over 200 years ago and the world has gotten even more globalized since then. It's getting more and more difficult to be a small, isolated community.

And the truth to the government is dependant on taxation. That was something else that should have been learned from the failure of the articles of confederation. If we have government, we need mandatory taxation.