(February 6, 2013 at 2:29 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Brian, I'm not scoffing at either number. I'm just saying that 400 million is an incredible, remarkable figure and that absent any support for that figure, I'm skeptical of the claim. Hell, even 200m is remarkable, but there's at least two references for it on Wikipedia.

Still missing my point. Name me one aspiring band or individual singer who would love to just sell 1 million records, much less 200 or 400 million.

ABBA is up there no matter what. Like The Beatles and Jackson and Rolling Stones. You are arguing 1rst place when I am arguing most aspiring artists would love to simply hit the top 100.

"Its not first place" Is not my argument. ABBA was a force no matter where you want to rank them.

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It is 2013 and we are still talking about them much more than say Pat Benatar or Quarterflash. And those two had songs I put above some ABBA stuff.

Dude, I'm not arguing anything. I'm just saying that 400 million is an unevidenced claim as far as I can see. It may be true, it may not. They were insanely successful in their day, there's no argument there.

I agree the numbers do not matter. But again it is 2013 and 30 years after their breakup we are STILL talking about them. If they sucked I dont think we'd even know who they were.

Of course they were successful like Elvis and the Stones and Justin Beiber, no argument there.

(February 6, 2013 at 2:09 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I love you Lilly. You don't care. I only wish I had come to that conclusion a long time ago.

Oh come off it... if I really didn't care: I wouldn't have responded in the first place Total apathy means no action taken, no respect given. Had I total apathy towards a person: I would walk through them.

I actually care a lot, about a great many things.

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(February 6, 2013 at 2:46 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I agree the numbers do not matter. But again it is 2013 and 30 years after their breakup we are STILL talking about them. If they sucked I dont think we'd even know who they were.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-N70L-MLSU

Or they could have just been *really* bad

Quote:Of course they were successful like Elvis and the Stones and Justin Beiber, no argument there.

I don't consider money gained as a measurement of success (at least, not the primary one). Were they happy with their lives? That's what concerns me.

(February 6, 2013 at 2:54 pm)Violet Lilly Blossom Wrote:

(February 6, 2013 at 2:09 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I love you Lilly. You don't care. I only wish I had come to that conclusion a long time ago.

Oh come off it... if I really didn't care: I wouldn't have responded in the first place Total apathy means no action taken, no respect given. Had I total apathy towards a person: I would walk through them.

I actually care a lot, about a great many things.

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(February 6, 2013 at 2:46 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I agree the numbers do not matter. But again it is 2013 and 30 years after their breakup we are STILL talking about them. If they sucked I dont think we'd even know who they were.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-N70L-MLSU

Or they could have just been *really* bad

Quote:Of course they were successful like Elvis and the Stones and Justin Beiber, no argument there.

I don't consider money gained as a measurement of success (at least, not the primary one). Were they happy with their lives? That's what concerns me.

You got that right, I can drop the semantics about record sales and yea, flat out agree with that. There is absolutely, at least to me, nothing worth anything if you are not happy and money doesn't equal happiness.

Lots of people end up with everything and are very empty. Happiness is ultimately what matters in life.

(February 7, 2013 at 12:47 pm)Brian37 Wrote: You got that right, I can drop the semantics about record sales and yea, flat out agree with that. There is absolutely, at least to me, nothing worth anything if you are not happy and money doesn't equal happiness.

Well... to a point, money really does help with that happiness It's after that point is crossed where it's kinda irrelevant. I really have no idea how someone could have more than a few million dollars, I'd have spent it.

Quote:Lots of people end up with everything and are very empty. Happiness is ultimately what matters in life.

People who 'end up with everything' are among the least empty in the world, and are some of the 'healthiest' and 'happiest'

(February 7, 2013 at 12:54 pm)Violet Lilly Blossom Wrote:

(February 7, 2013 at 12:47 pm)Brian37 Wrote: You got that right, I can drop the semantics about record sales and yea, flat out agree with that. There is absolutely, at least to me, nothing worth anything if you are not happy and money doesn't equal happiness.

Well... to a point, money really does help with that happiness It's after that point is crossed where it's kinda irrelevant. I really have no idea how someone could have more than a few million dollars, I'd have spent it.

Quote:Lots of people end up with everything and are very empty. Happiness is ultimately what matters in life.

People who 'end up with everything' are among the least empty in the world, and are some of the 'healthiest' and 'happiest'

Quote:I really have no idea how someone could have more than a few million dollars, I'd have spent it.

I don't get that either, I think past a certain point it is obscene.

I most certainly have run into people who had everything and were miserable. Life is a range and so you can only speak in terms of probability not absolutes.

(February 7, 2013 at 1:07 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I most certainly have run into people who had everything and were miserable. Life is a range and so you can only speak in terms of probability not absolutes.

Money still helps. They may be miserable but they don't have the fear that comes with living with very little money.

(February 7, 2013 at 1:07 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I don't get that either, I think past a certain point it is obscene.

I most certainly have run into people who had everything and were miserable. Life is a range and so you can only speak in terms of probability not absolutes.

I can absolutely speak in as many absolutes as I want, regardless of whether it is or isn't correct/true. That's the point of knowledge

The richest miserable person knows not misery like the poorest miserable people. Those who have control over vast sums (richness) by definition cannot be barred access to them (as then they'd be poor). Therefore, a rich person cannot be trafficked, a rich person does not fear shelter disappearing, a rich person does not live without shelter as anything but their choice, a rich person doesn't have to think about aborting children because they can't afford them, a rich person doesn't go hungry but as a disorder, and a rich person can always afford entertainment.

Have everything and think they're miserable? Watch what happens when you then take away 'everything'.

(February 7, 2013 at 1:12 pm)Insanity x Wrote:

(February 7, 2013 at 1:07 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I most certainly have run into people who had everything and were miserable. Life is a range and so you can only speak in terms of probability not absolutes.

Money still helps. They may be miserable but they don't have the fear that comes with living with very little money.

Yea but I wouldn't trade places with Madoff or Gadaffi. Happiness still amounts to being happy with yourself first. Material things come and go, but relationships are really the ultimate things that we have that matter.

For example. I wouldn't trade the knowledge in my head that lead me to my atheism for any amount of money.

Life is still ultimately a range and people are individuals. Life is not a script. All one can do or should do is simply be themselves and be happy no matter what their income is if they go up to the top, or get to the middle or even stay at the bottom.