http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/uni....06.x.html

This makes broad claims similar to Eilon's as well (it also fails to back them up). Although you tell us it has nothing to do with how 'sexy' (sexually attractive or exciting) a rape victim is...

Why else would a rapist usually choose a woman over a dog, horse, cat, or other specie (edit: or even the other sex)? It isn't as though those aren't available (Type in something along the lines of 'bestiality sex' into a google search if you are that interested...). And the rapist can be quite violent and aggressive with them (another thing no different from raping women).

So this question remains... why choose a woman over anything else? The answer really must come down to what/whom the rapist finds 'sexy' (see sexually attractive or exciting) enough for him to force sex upon. (This is no different for women rapists either). There is one of the greatest roots to rape... it is not only an act of violence... but it is an act of violence that is inherently of a sexual nature. Therefore it is only logical to conclude that sexiness (as I showed with richness above) is at least a part of the decision making process either A: when the person begins to plan (however long before the rape occurs) the rape, B: in the target (intended victim) acquisition, C: actions taken by the rapist during the act. <non-mutually exclusive.>

Also, you should note that animals rape other animals... and that humans are animals to begin with. This issue has 100% to do with sex.

And another thing......

The politically constructed social studies reasons rape happens are false. Rape happens for evolutionary reasons as outlined in my links above.

To claim rape is not sexually driven but driven by violence and men's need to dominate women is no different than claiming the theft of my wallet was not monetarily driven but driven by violence and the the perpetrators need to do dominate me. Nothing to do with the fact I was flaunting/exposing it.

A thief goes out to rob somebody. Will he chose to rob this guy --> or will he chose to rob this guy-->?

A deserves to be shot scum-bag rapist heads out to rape someone. It is of my opinion, in our present day society,
this girl --> has an increased chance of becoming his victim more than this girl -->

---

And in the interest of consistancy, should you not also be accusing Sae and the author quoted above, both women, of degrading women and being offensive?

at your picture examples Dotard ^_^

Of course, it should be noted that if the girl on the left is unavailable: then naturally the rapist will take the girl on the right (assuming those are his/her/its only two options). This is why availability comes before the agenda... because 'everyone' wants to rob Bill Gates... but just how often is he open to being robbed? (You have to have him available to be robbed, before there is any possibility of an agenda). A thief will usually avoid stealing from the guy on the right (and look for more of the people like he on the left)... but if you check out this link: http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/crime/story/868944.html ... Observation precedes Opportunity precedes Operation. If you walk around waving your money in front of people's faces: they will undoubtably be more likely to take action. If you are in the nude in public: they will undoubtably be more likely to take action.

Once again, Observation --> Opportunity --> Operation. That is the standard model for crime. If you prevent observation from occurring... no opportunity can be observed... and thus no operation can take place.

Quote:And in the interest of consistancy, should you not also be accusing Sae and the author quoted above, both women, of degrading women and being offensive?

Indeed... I feel a little ignored (Probably because I am on her ignore list... just maybe-possibly? ) Edit: As evidence of this: No response as of yet?

fr0d0 Wrote:So women commonly choose to alter and adorn their bodies. Aren't breast augmentation and botox enhancements equally if not more vile? In some discussions here it seems the anti religious view is to uphold a societal approach to morality so your scenario is true for them. Personally I find that abhorrent.

This hasn't been fully addressed yet hock:, so I'll address it

More vile in comparison to the corset? (look inside http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Blunder...184222591X at the very first few pages 'A Tight Fit' a very good show of why I hate the corset... i've yet to see a better one.) Find your own answer as to wether botox or breast 'augmentation?' are anywhere near as vile as the corset.

I follow no society's rules past those which I have to. My morality is my own If you find that abhorrent: that's your prerogative.

Reading this thread I constantly think Chinese foot binding. Those extremes weren't the norm as 'augmentation' is now I believe.

My abhorrence was over your example not your morality or LACK OF

I think women should obviously dress as they wish (within the realms of law of course lol (as with men too of course!))... whether this increases risks or not I do not know, and I also do not know to what degree if it does (especially since Eli and Dotard have conflicting facts at this moment and I do not know which source is the most credible yet!)... but ultimately it's their choice what they wear.

There are always risks - in everything in life. Security and freedom are both highly important (obviously).

Sorry if I'm just stating the obvious here... but I can't see what else is being argued about? Apologies if there's anything more debatable here! ...

Whether how you dress - whether you're male or female - has an effect on rape risk or not... it's ultimately just up to the individual to decide how they dress, be they male or female, is it not(???)

EvF

(November 6, 2009 at 11:58 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: (especially since Eli and Dotard have conflicting facts at this moment and I do not know which source is the most credible yet!)...

Consider the sources.

Social scientists vs. anthropology and biology scientists. Political-social constructed contentions vs. evolutionary reasons.

Well as I said, either way... it's ultimately an individual's choice what they wear, be them male or female.

EvF

(November 7, 2009 at 8:54 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Well as I said, either way... it's ultimately an individual's choice what they wear, be them male or female.

EvF

Yes, of course. That was never questioned. We all agree people have the right to wear what they wish.

The discussion was whether people increase their chances of a crime being committed against them by openly displaying that which the criminal desires.

I have the right to take a handful of money and openly display it to the general public. I contend exercising this right will contribute to the likelihood of it's theft. Even though I have to right to press charges against the thief, if caught, it does not guarantee the return of my property. Law enforcement does not guarantee prevention, only punishment.

Therefore it is prudent and incumbant upon me to keep my valuables out of the public spotlight. To purposely keep from drawing attention to that which I place a high value, thus reducing it's vunerablility to theft.

It's not about an individuals right to do as they please.

Like I said before Dotard, it's about male dominance. You don't often hear about women raping women unless they are in the penitentiary and there is a scarcity of men. But in society rape is an animal instinct and is about male dominance. Most rapists target women not solely for their looks because I have seen some horrible looking women on television talking about their personal experiences with rape. But more so about opportunity and control. You see a woman you desire and she is alone in an alley and the likelyhood of getting caught is slim you would go for it. Once you've commenced your assault she fights or attempts to defend herself (the thrill of the hunt for the rapists), when she is beaten and battered and finally gives in he takes his prize.

That is a cruel way of putting it but that is the way I see it.