(February 23, 2013 at 1:59 pm)Gilgamesh Wrote: Do you believe that generally, women are more prone than men to let emotion dictate their thinking, rather than reason? I do.

I know that this is so. But after all the stereotypical 'women are like this' talk, I wanted to show that though the majority of females fit the bill, not all do.

(February 23, 2013 at 2:18 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Before I forget, and before this round of LOL starts, whoever is trying to justify this same tired bullshit on the grounds of "god"

The argument is DOA on the basis of bare and deplorably infantile potential arguments. Your silly little god myth doesn't have the juice to make your womenfolk bow before you anymore. To be honest I doubt that it ever did, or we would be at a loss as to explain precisely why the judicious and regular application of a closed fist was required. Get a grip.

Bow before us ?

You know Rhythm, I had a promise upon myself not to fall in love or date an atheist woman for the rest of my life, and I do take my promises seriously..

The reason is just what you wrote.. I knew from a long time that many atheists do think that about us.. I just advice you to get over yourself ; I'm not here for any women, and what you just said is really insulting to me.

I'll withdraw myself from this topic because as I said many times : I prefer to run when debates started to heat.

But keep an eye on my posts.. I'll never participate again in anything related to women on this forum, warn me or even report if I did, I will also keep my opinions to myself, because really what you said is just insulting to a degree you can't imagine : )

I'm sorry if any atheist girl was offended from what I said.

Peace.

You're leaving before you tell me why different brains and emotions and shit are a privilege to women? Psh, it's not the first time I was ignored - I CAN *sob* *sob* *sputter* HANDLE IT *cry*

(February 23, 2013 at 2:16 pm)Violet Lilly Blossom Wrote: Womanhood and manhood are both cultural, in many cultures it is expected of women to be submissive.

I do think there is a neurological aspect to gender identity (insofar as 'if your brain is structured a certain way, you're more likely to 'align' with the 'gender role' associated with it), and so biology plays a small part (specifically: constructing brains, which are responsible for personality, wants/desires, the like).

But past that, gender is a wholly cultural invention. There are men and women in this world who would be pretty much identical were it not for calling themselves a man or a woman. The 'traits of gender' associated with 'man' and 'woman' are wholly invented (you'll notice that many of them are defied by the individuals who still call themselves men and women?), since those very 'traits' do not apply to all of those encompassed by this bigendering system.

One 'trait of gender' associated with 'man' is being sexually attracted to women. Is this "wholly invented," and so in no way biological?

If wholly invented, why have there been few if any matriarchies? Women just coincidentally choose not to have power?

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(February 23, 2013 at 2:18 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Before I forget, and before this round of LOL starts, whoever is trying to justify this same tired bullshit on the grounds of "god"

The argument is DOA on the basis of bare and deplorably infantile potential arguments. Your silly little god myth doesn't have the juice to make your womenfolk bow before you anymore. To be honest I doubt that it ever did, or we would be at a loss as to explain precisely why the judicious and regular application of a closed fist was required. Get a grip.

So why don't the women hit back?

Oh yeah, they evolved to be smaller and weaker than men, so they can't.

(February 23, 2013 at 2:42 pm)John V Wrote: One 'trait of gender' associated with 'man' is being sexually attracted to women. Is this "wholly invented," and so in no way biological?

So gay men.. .aren't men?

Funky, yup: wholly invented.

Quote:If wholly invented, why have there been few if any matriarchies? Women just coincidentally choose not to have power?

Because being able to punch harder and being larger is a fairly effective method of control, particularly in older societies which didn't exactly have a civil rights movement or a police force complete with jails

Cultural, there are physical reasons why it's cultural, but it's cultural. Women have power in other areas, more relevant today than they were then. It's completely realistic that the balance of power will do a complete 180 as the traits of 'can lift more' and 'bigger' will eventually be the traits of the slave class (technological progress makes it pretty irrelevant for anything but cheap drudgery). These traits have a more significant impact before the likes of hydraulics and heavy machinery and mining lasers are invented

(February 23, 2013 at 2:23 pm)AtlasS Wrote: But I really want to know, why many women get offended from this ? this is not sexist in any way ; it's actually a privilege to women !

It's got nothing to do with privilege for people who accept evolution. The male and female brains just evolved to be wired a bit differently.

(February 23, 2013 at 2:56 pm)Violet Lilly Blossom Wrote: Because being able to punch harder and being larger is a fairly effective method of control, particularly in older societies which didn't exactly have a civil rights movement or a police force complete with jails

And another winner!

Quote:Cultural, there are physical reasons why it's cultural, but it's cultural.

It's sad that you're so good at spotting bullshit i other people's arguments, but you go and do the same yourself.

Quote:Women have power in other areas, more relevant today than they were then.

Which areas are those?

Quote:It's completely realistic that the balance of power will do a complete 180 as the traits of 'can lift more' and 'bigger' will eventually be the traits of the slave class (technological progress makes it pretty irrelevant for anything but cheap drudgery). These traits have a more significant impact before the likes of hydraulics and heavy machinery and mining lasers are invented

1. A complete 180 in the balance of power would mean women would have most of the positions of power and men would be raising the kids. How is this completely realistic? Or did you mean to say that things will simply balance out?

2. Could take a long time. Remember, assetiveness would have been bred out of women, as the assertive ones would have sometimes been killed and failed to reproduce.

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(February 23, 2013 at 3:05 pm)Confused Ape Wrote: It's got nothing to do with privilege for people who accept evolution. The male and female brains just evolved to be wired a bit differently.

No way, man, evolution can't do that, it's all cultural.

All these generalizations...... *sigh* I wonder how it would look if, instead of making generalizations of "men do this, women do that" we made generalizations of "black people do this, white people do that?" Or would it be racist?

Fuck it. I hate generalizations and stereotypes. Let individuals be individuals and fuck all the labels we throw onto them that we're placing so much importance on.

(February 23, 2013 at 3:10 pm)John V Wrote: No way, man, evolution can't do that, it's all cultural.

Looks like evolution might have something to do with it.

Male And Female Brains

Quote:A woman's group that I belong to harbours one member who is sure women's brains are the same as men's and perceived differences are just the result of upbringing or prejudice, and a Darwinian who disagrees and can show an infant male and a female being offered toys, the male choosing a machine and the female a baby doll. (This can't be laid at the door of prejudiced upbringing, because they are both vervet monkeys who have never seen a toy.)

[Recently I watched a fascinating lecture showing how men and women's brains do react differently; it can now be shown by neuroscientists observing which bits of the brain are on the go at any one time. The examples showed great divergence: women's brains can take in two things at a time, men's only one; women do more empathy, men more systemising and so on. Not surprising when you consider their evolution – men needing to be good at hunting in groups, women at finding plants and quieting kids. The lecturers' conclusion was that as brains are different, any outfit would obviously do best with both kinds.

Vervet Monkeys And Toys

Quote:We do not yet know exactly why males of different primate species prefer wheeled toys and other vehicles, or why females of different primate species prefer plush toys and other dolls (except for their vague resemblance to babies, for which females are evolutionarily designed to care). However, it is becoming less and less likely that “gender socialization” is the reason why boys and girls prefer different toys, and more and more likely that there are some genetic, hormonal, and other biological reasons for the observed sex differences in toy preference.