If there is no God does it matter if people believe in Him?

So do you have a problem with people believing in God? Of course religion has caused some bad things to happen in the past, but I think what it brings to individual lives out weighs this.

For me I was close to becoming an atheist not to long ago. Well to be honest I'm not sure if I would have been atheist or simply acting as if there is no God but I decided that if I did lose faith I would try to bring my christian friends along with me on the reasoning that there is hope and purpose in christianity that you can't have in atheism. Not to say you have no hope or purpose in your life, but that it isn't the same.

What do you think and why?

Quote:So do you have a problem with people believing in God?

Certainly not. In fact you are perfectly free to believe that the moon is made of green cheese (an equivalent belief) if you like.

My complaint with people like you is your incessant desire to spread your bullshit all over the landscape. I've heard it all before, I wasn't impressed the first time and you are doing no better.

But where the line really gets drawn is when "believers" seek to murder or oppress those who disagree with them. There is simply far too much of that bullshit.

Keep your silliness in your homes or churches and you'll have no problem from me.

I have no problem with people believing in God. I have problems with people believing in God and thinking that they can speak and know what it wants, and that everyone must therefore follow a strict set of rules.

It is true that there is no hope or purpose in atheism, but then atheism isn't a doctrine or a set of beliefs to subscribe to. I follow a "doctrine" of secular humanism, which has the same hope and purpose as Christianity.

Truth be told, I'm not strictly against religion anyway. I just want every religion to recognize secularism as the *only* political system that can be fair in a multi-faith society. I don't care what rules religions put on their followers (as long as their followers are their voluntarily). All I care is that they understand that their rules should not influence how anyone else lives their lives.

(November 14, 2009 at 1:55 pm)Tiberius Wrote: I follow a "doctrine" of secular humanism, which has the same hope and purpose as Christianity.

What do you mean by that?

(November 14, 2009 at 1:55 pm)Tiberius Wrote: All I care is that they understand that their rules should not influence how anyone else lives their lives.

Couldn't others say the same about any rules you think are ok to impose on everyone? Who should decide which rules should be implemented? Should it matter what the underlying thinking is relative to a rule? (Just looking for clarification on your position.)

Quote:Should it matter what the underlying thinking is relative to a rule?

Yes.


"Thinking" of course, being a great way to start instead of relying on a silly old book written for goat herders a couple of thousand years ago.

(November 14, 2009 at 1:19 pm)solarwave Wrote: If there is no God does it matter if people believe in Him?(1)

So do you have a problem with people believing in God?(2)

1. Of course not, but it's rather absurd to believe that there's a magical wizard in the sky...

2. No. I have a problem with people misusing what he says and enforcing them onto society, and I call these people "idiotheists".

(November 14, 2009 at 2:49 pm)rjh4 Wrote:

(November 14, 2009 at 1:55 pm)Tiberius Wrote: I follow a "doctrine" of secular humanism, which has the same hope and purpose as Christianity.

What do you mean by that?

Should have been obvious. What hope and purpose I got out of Christianity, I get out of secular humanism. The only difference I can see is that humanism puts more meaning and purpose onto this one life we have, rather then bumping up any expectation of an 'afterlife'.

Quote:Couldn't others say the same about any rules you think are ok to impose on everyone? Who should decide which rules should be implemented? Should it matter what the underlying thinking is relative to a rule? (Just looking for clarification on your position.)

Everyone should decide on the rules that people follow; that's the point, it's why we have governments, elections, democracy! Secularism actually has a very important Christian teaching at it's core, namely "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". In other words, before you make a law stating that it is illegal to speak ill of Islam, think about how Islam speaks ill of all other religions. The only logical solutions are to either (a) make it illegal to speak ill of any religious belief, or (b) don't create a law at all. Since discussion of religion would be severely undermined by (a), and most people would be against it (as would most religions), (b) is a far more attractive option, as well as being easier to manage.

If there's no God..

What do you mean, if? And which God are we talking about here. Presumably the Abrahamic one.

Anyway, no, it doesn't matter if people believe in him. In fact, for many people it's probably quite a good thing. It gives their lives a sense of meaning and purpose. The trouble starts when people think that God has a plan for this world and it is their duty to do his bidding. Or they somehow know what God approves of and what he doesn't and judge others accordingly.

I have no problem with people having a belief in God or gods, the problem I have is with religion!

Quote:So do you have a problem with people believing in God?

I really don't care what others believe, think, say or do unless they try to impose their world view and values on me or others. This position extends to aggressive and militant atheists who try to deconvert believers. I consider any kind of proselytising the height of arrogance.

Quote:Of course religion has caused some bad things to happen in the past, but I think what it brings to individual lives out weighs this.

Great harm continues to be done in name of religion ,every day,from suicide bombers,to the Vatican's callous anti condom rule to the hateful bile of Fred Phelps and much,much more..

As for the good outweighing the bad,that is entirely a matter of opinion.As I have never seen convincing evidence for either point of view,I remain agnostic on the subject. In my experience religion neither makes bad people good nor good people bad,it merely provides them for a framework to follow their natural inclinations.

(November 14, 2009 at 1:19 pm)solarwave Wrote: If there is no God does it matter if people believe in Him?

So do you have a problem with people believing in God? Of course religion has caused some bad things to happen in the past, but I think what it brings to individual lives out weighs this.

For me I was close to becoming an atheist not to long ago. Well to be honest I'm not sure if I would have been atheist or simply acting as if there is no God but I decided that if I did lose faith I would try to bring my christian friends along with me on the reasoning that there is hope and purpose in christianity that you can't have in atheism. Not to say you have no hope or purpose in your life, but that it isn't the same.

What do you think and why?

If we take your initial statement "If there is no god" to be the starting point, then I have many problems with people choosing to believe in a falsehood.

Leaving aside issues of false hope and wasted lives & efforts; I believe that the human race must leave its superstitions behind in order to progress. As long as people believe that 'this life' is merely a precursor to another, 'better' existence, people will continually be inclined not to strive to improve 'this life' for ourselves, others and future generations; but rather live 'this life' in a manner which will facilitate progression to the 'better life'.

I think that the fact that religious views still determine the chances of political candidates is a travesty, and the fact that otherwise reasonable people would be disinclined to vote for a person, because they didn't share an unsubstantiated belief about what happens after we die is equally detrimental to society at large.

Also, I must take issue with your comment about hopes and purposes "Not to say you have no hope or purpose in your life, but that it isn't the same". Why? Why aren't my hopes the same as yours?
I'd be willing to bet that our actual hopes and purposes themselves are pretty similar actually. The only difference being that you endow your hopes and purpose with additional supernatural intention, whereas I see mine as eminating from natural processes.