(March 24, 2013 at 7:51 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(March 24, 2013 at 7:12 am)enrico Wrote: As the maggots do not come from matter also mind does not come from matter.
Maggots have mind. Every creature with mind never come out of matter and never will.

And how do you KNOW this?


It was Pasteur that discover this long time ago.
I thought that you were up to date with these discoveries!!!

(March 24, 2013 at 7:12 am)enrico Wrote: The brain is housing the mind as a car is housing a driver.
You are the driver.
Unfortunately materialism think that there is no distinction between the two.

And how do you KNOW this?

The brains is like a warehouse where you store information.
It is only when YOU decide to do something with these information that your brain become active.
The same thing happen with your car. It is only when YOU decide to start the car that the car start moving.
I understand that it take quite sometime to understand this concept but give time to time and one day it all will become more clear.

(March 24, 2013 at 7:12 am)enrico Wrote: [color=#0000CD]As the maggots do not come from matter also mind does not come from matter.

Maggots do not come from matter?

Maggots are the grub of pritty much every two winged insect, and as such the are first formed by the eggs within the mother which again are created by sperm and an egg cell and then grow through the mother taking up the required proteins needed for the eggs to grow, a maggot keeps growing through taking up food through whatever means that kind of maggot gains food (different from species to species) - all of which is basicaly matter.

Quote:Maggots have mind. Every creature with mind never come out of matter and never will.

Any what makes you think that basic intincts are not handed down through development within the creation of the animal within the mothers womb or the egg?
Even the most basic intincts can be found present in for example - mentaly handicaped people - and therefor are almoust certainly handed down via biological process.
Learning capaceties are more or less an essential part of being a living species and could have easily be formed via evolution since those who didnt learn to adapt - died.

Quote:Materialism is still stuck in the stone age as far as to where mind come from.

How the fuck does this have anything to do with maggots or the development of the maggot mind and minds in general?

Ok, sure! Go ahead and rant about how bad materialism is.

But only after you threw away your laptop, mobile phone, coffee machine and money. Then left your house - and started a life as hunter - gatherer.

Quote:The Germans are coming.....................Maggots do not come from matter?
Maggots are the grub of pritty much every two winged insect, and as such the are first formed by the eggs within the mother which again are created by sperm and an egg cell and then grow through the mother taking up the required proteins needed for the eggs to grow, a maggot keeps growing through taking up food through whatever means that kind of maggot gains food (different from species to species) - all of which is basicaly matter.

The fact that maggots feed on matter does not really mean anything.
We are talking about the fact that mind must come from another mind.
The matter never generated mind and never will.
Without the flies (creatures with mind) to produced eggs that generated the maggots (creatures with mind) there was no way that rotting flesh would have generated the maggots.
I suggest you to look into Pasteur work to update your knowledge on the subject.

Quote:Any what makes you think that basic intincts are not handed down through development within the creation of the animal within the mothers womb or the egg?
Even the most basic intincts can be found present in for example - mentaly handicaped people - and therefor are almoust certainly handed down via biological process.
Learning capaceties are more or less an essential part of being a living species and could have easily be formed via evolution since those who didnt learn to adapt - died.

What this has got to do with my statement that............Maggots have mind. Every creature with mind never come out of matter and never will.............only Santa Claus knows.

Quote:Ok, sure! Go ahead and rant about how bad materialism is.

I already discussed this topic in which i make examples of how materialism can not give total peace of mind and therefore is not the goal of life.

Quote:But only after you threw away your laptop, mobile phone, coffee machine and money. Then left your house - and started a life as hunter - gatherer.

Material things are there to be used not to be elevated and warship as God although everything at the end is really part of God.
When my car start to rot i will dump it in the wrecker yard and then buy another car.
The same i will do with my body when it will start to rot.

How do you know that mind does not come from matter?
Everything that has a mind is made up from matter.

As far as we know, minds do not float around unattached to anything. Why? Because they are a product of the brain (Most people's are made up of matter)

(March 24, 2013 at 9:49 am)Joel Wrote: How do you know that mind does not come from matter?
Everything that has a mind is made up from matter.

As far as we know, minds do not float around unattached to anything. Why? Because they are a product of the brain (Most people's are made up of matter)

After some million of years that humans exist on planet earth none has so far demonstrated that mind come from matter.
Mind can exist without a body (matter) and this has been already been demonstrated by thousand of NDE experiences.

(March 24, 2013 at 10:06 am)enrico Wrote:

(March 24, 2013 at 9:49 am)Joel Wrote: How do you know that mind does not come from matter?
Everything that has a mind is made up from matter.

As far as we know, minds do not float around unattached to anything. Why? Because they are a product of the brain (Most people's are made up of matter)

After some million of years that humans exist on planet earth none has so far demonstrated that mind come from matter.
Mind can exist without a body (matter) and this has been already been demonstrated by thousand of NDE experiences.

No. You're completely wrong. Experiments were done into NDEs/OBEs where a number/clock was put onto a high shelf/cupboard in the room of patients. When they came back from their apparent experience, they could not recall even seeing anything of the sort in said place. (I will look for citation: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/victor-ste...57920.html )

Also, just because we haven't demonstrated, does not mean we assume the converse. That's like an argument from ignorance, on steroids.
We also have not demonstrated that there no invisible unicorns carrying space debris through the universe: must we assume that they do exist?

(March 24, 2013 at 10:14 am)Joel Wrote:

(March 24, 2013 at 10:06 am)enrico Wrote: After some million of years that humans exist on planet earth none has so far demonstrated that mind come from matter.
Mind can exist without a body (matter) and this has been already been demonstrated by thousand of NDE experiences.

No. You're completely wrong. Experiments were done into NDEs/OBEs where a number/clock was put onto a high shelf/cupboard in the room of patients. When they came back from their apparent experience, they could not recall even seeing anything of the sort in said place. (I will look for citation: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/victor-ste...57920.html )

Also, just because we haven't demonstrated, does not mean we assume the converse. That's like an argument from ignorance, on steroids.
We also have not demonstrated that there no invisible unicorns carrying space debris through the universe: must we assume that they do exist?

Opshhh. somebody was telling me that neurosurgeons would not agree with me.
Well, well just look at this neurosurgeon.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/20...rlife.html

(March 24, 2013 at 10:26 am)enrico Wrote:

(March 24, 2013 at 10:14 am)Joel Wrote: No. You're completely wrong. Experiments were done into NDEs/OBEs where a number/clock was put onto a high shelf/cupboard in the room of patients. When they came back from their apparent experience, they could not recall even seeing anything of the sort in said place. (I will look for citation: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/victor-ste...57920.html )

Also, just because we haven't demonstrated, does not mean we assume the converse. That's like an argument from ignorance, on steroids.
We also have not demonstrated that there no invisible unicorns carrying space debris through the universe: must we assume that they do exist?

Opshhh. somebody was telling me that neurosurgeons would not agree with me.
Well, well just look at this neurosurgeon.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/20...rlife.html

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/this-must-be-heaven

Sorry, sir. I've come across this, before.

(March 24, 2013 at 9:27 am)enrico Wrote: The fact that maggots feed on matter does not really mean anything.

Whaaaaat?

The fact that I painted a room doesnt mean that there is now a lair of paint on it?
The fact that I ate food doesnt mean that I know have food in my digestive system?
The fact that it rained doesnt mean that there is now fresh water draining down into the soil?

You claimed that maggots dont come from matter, I showed you that the opposite was true and then you disregard it as irrelevant?
I have encountered this narcecist way of answering an argument on various ocasion, a person in love with themselves and his or her worldview, which it consideres to be beautyfull and should therefor not be scratched by anyone, will always simply declare counterarguments as irrelevant due to comfort.

So let me ask bluntly: Is it worth debating with you if you dont even accept counter arguments and simply declare them to be irrelvant by the authority your minds disneyworld worldview gave you?

Quote:We are talking about the fact that mind must come from another mind.

O really?

instincts are constantly past on through genes and one can observe this amongst all kinds of animals. A kitten taken from the mother at an early age will still behave like a cat due to the instincts past on via genes.

No need for a creator to explain behavior if you have genes.

Quote:The matter never generated mind and never will.

Of course it did, because mind is brain and the chemical components of that brain (matter) are well known:

Quote:Without the flies (creatures with mind) to produced eggs that generated the maggots (creatures with mind) there was no way that rotting flesh would have generated the maggots.

It isnt the mind! It is biological function, a animal cannot chose how to breed!!! If one could chose how to breed many human females would have far more children because they would make it less painfull by chosing.

Birth is a biological function whcih has absolutly nothing to do with "the mind"!

Quote:I suggest you to look into Pasteur work to update your knowledge on the subject.

Big words, by someone who thinks that the mind can actualy influence the way of birth.

Quote:What this has got to do with my statement that............Maggots have mind. Every creature with mind never come out of matter and never will.............only Santa Claus knows.

And how do you know?! Where you there when the first organic forms of life came into existance!
And your definitio of matter is loose and silly! What do you mean with "matter" organic chemical components? unorganic chemical components? atoms? molecules?

Quote:I already discussed this topic in which i make examples of how materialism can not give total peace of mind and therefore is not the goal of life.

And what makes you think that there actualy is a common goal in life for all?

Life and how it shall be livedis to determined by the individual and by someone who doesnt even understand how giving birth works.

Quote:Material things are there to be used not to be elevated and warship as God although everything at the end is really part of God.

Oh really?! Who says so?! You alone!? And will you inforce it with your GESTAPO one you have built your non materealistic Reich?!

Life and how it shall be lived is determined by an individual and not by someone who doesnt even understand how giving birth works.

If you think you can determine the meaning and "goal" of your life, then do so cause you determine it yourself. But dont you think that your thoughts are generaly theory acceptable for everyone, and dont be suprised that when you spew nonsence, like not understanding birth, people will point out that nonsence!

Quote:When my car start to rot i will dump it in the wrecker yard and then buy another car.
The same i will do with my body when it will start to rot.

Aaaaaaaaaand?!?! Is that suposed to make some kind of point?

I just jumped into this thread after a while of forgetting it exists and somehow maggots have become so fucking special that they are not made of matter. Did I just emerge from a vortex connected to the dumbest realm in existence?