(April 6, 2013 at 5:22 am)missluckie26 Wrote:

Quote:I haven't viewed any specific data that leads me to believe the universe is here by design. I have nothing more than the Bible and my faith. What is there that proves that there wasn't a creator unequivocally?

Hey, if that's how you wanna live your life: fine. Just don't tell me or anyone else how to live based on your faith beliefs.
Me? I'd rather make a conclusion based on material fact.

1. Biologists have examined each of the molecular systems claimed to be the products of design and have shown how they could have arisen through natural processes.

2. Evolutionary biologists also have demonstrated how complex biochemical mechanisms could have evolved from simpler precursor systems.

3. Existing systems also can acquire new functions.

Irregardless of whether you believe evolution happened or not: there's no proof for design at all. Go look for it, if you don't believe me.
Which leaves us with, in the end if you believe God set off the big bang and thus evolutionary creation through faith: you're looking at bold-faced proof otherwise and disregarding it on purpose. Because no where in creation does it say, "made by god", or "designed by god". I mean, If there was a shred of proof that these systems were intelligently designed I'd see your point. But there isn't. So you're living in delusion.
That's fine. Just don't tell me I'm going to hell, or tell my friend he's going to hell. Or legislate against people's personal liberties because of what your delusional god(s) dictate.

Quote:Every single day. Unfailingly.

I feel sorry then that I questioned you. My bad. You read every day the content of that Bible and you still believe in god?
I know what you're thinking, I'm just another one of those evil doers not unlike those who mocked Noah. I'm just the devil testing you like in the desert with Jesus.
Here's the thing, I'm not. I'm seriously trying to deprogram your mind from a cult based reality.

Quote:Which assertions?

Love. God doesn't love us.
Justice. God is not just.
Infallibility. God is definitely fallible based on his own purported works.
Omnipotence God is not omnipotent

And the zillions of contradictions that lie within the Bible, with regards to these attributes.

Those are your assertions not assertions from God. Let me tell you what I've got.. I've got an entire family history of horrible sin. My family history is full of drugs, violence, laziness, and many more things that I cannot put on this forum for self embarrassment and pain. I've got parents who loved whiskey more than me. I actually was on my own at fifteen, stealing just to eat. No bullshit here. And I've got a God and Savior who freed me from suicidal thoughts, irrational anger, and addictions to things I won't say. He freed me from the abuse of my past and everything that was holding me down. I am no longer defined by what once was, and I am a new creation. When you run into issues like these, the ones that make you.think life isn't such a good idea, where do you turn? I firmly believe every word of the Bible and even if I were the only one left in the world, going to my death for my beliefs, then they would still never change. You can argue all the science you want, but when it comes down to it, as long as I believe in God, then no human mind can compare to His. How are we to comprehend his will and plans? I AK not skilled enough to understand these, but each day I learn a little more. And each day my faith becomes more unbreakable.

Quote:The misspelling was on purpose, trying to be humorous, guess I failed. Oh, you missed the Baptist part. You should have looked at religious view darling

If you're trying to convince proponents (look that up) that you're intelligent in a debate-like setting: just a suggestion--spell it correctly. Unless you want to put /joke behind it, you're just going to end up looking ignorant, darling.

(April 6, 2013 at 5:44 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 5:40 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: And everything I believe in has a long long history, and much "peer reviewed data".

Unverifiable history based on a fiction book written by fallible men. Also, the so-called peer reviewed data is neither due to the fact that it is not accepted by any credible people in the scientific community.

How about this: your scientific "theories", created by fallible men and women, are not accepted by any credible people in the Christian community. See.what I did there? ;-)

(April 6, 2013 at 5:53 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: Those are your assertions not assertions from God. Let me tell you what I've got.

There are people who have been through far worse than you, and they do not turn to god for salvation. Rather, they become stronger people on their own merits and/or with the help of others through secular means. I honestly believe only the weak minded turn to imaginary guidance and comfort.

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(April 6, 2013 at 5:58 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: How about this: your scientific "theories", created by fallible men and women, are not accepted by any credible people in the Christian community. See.what I did there? ;-)

The christian community is only credible according to its own god delusion.

(April 6, 2013 at 5:48 am)missluckie26 Wrote: I believe you are referring to the current understanding that the universe is 5% visible matter, 25% dark matter, and 70% dark energy (or something like that). I would not say that this accounts for the existence of "god." Current M-Theory is hinting to the reality that some of the "stuff" in our universe may actually be shared by other universes in the 11-dimensional multi-verse. Gravity, for example is seen to "leak" into our universe from this 11th dimension. I don't claim to know for a fact that this theory is the correct one, I don't have faith in when it comes to what I believe: I like to know what I believe now.

Thing is: there's proof for dark matter. There's no proof that that matter is anything else than just matter. Giving it a relation to being proof for god's being is ridiculous. That would be like me saying air is physical proof of my (hypothetical) goddess.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...atter.html

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Dark Matter Proof Found, Scientists Say
John Roach
for National Geographic News
August 22, 2006
A team of researchers has found the first direct proof for the existence of dark matter, the mysterious and almost invisible substance thought to make up almost a quarter of the universe.

Dark matter does not absorb or emit light. So far, astronomers have inferred its presence only indirectly by measuring the effects of its gravity.
But now, by observing a massive collision between two large clusters of galaxies, astronomers have detected what they say could only be the signature of dark matter.

The scientists used optical and x-ray telescopes to measure the location of mass in the collided formation, known as the "bullet cluster" because of its shape.

More than 90 percent of the visible mass in a galaxy cluster is hot gas. The rest is stars located within individual galaxies.

The composite image at left shows that this hot gas (red) was dragged away from the stars and galaxies (blue) during the collision (see bigger photo).

But most of the mass—and thus matter—is located within the galaxies, or the blue areas, scientists say.

In other words, the bulk of visible matter in the clusters has been separated from the majority of mass—which therefore must be dark matter.

"This proves in a simple and direct way that dark matter exists," Maxim Markevitch of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Massachusetts, said in a telephone briefing Monday with reporters.

Scientists calculate that dark matter makes up about 25 percent of the universe.

By contrast, ordinary matter—the stuff that makes up stars, planets, and everything on Earth—makes up no more than about 5 percent of the universe.

The other 70 percent of the universe, scientists believe, is made of dark energy, an even more elusive force that is pushing the universe apart at an ever increasing rate.

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I see in the article the scientist say they believe and use the word elusive, that wording is there because there is no proof, none, it is all speculation at best.
I did not try and use dark matter and dark energy as proof of God, you're reading your own conclusions into my statements, please don't. What I said if one can believe in the unproven and unseen dark matter and dark energy, then why is it so hard to say God is possible.

(April 6, 2013 at 5:59 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 5:53 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: Those are your assertions not assertions from God. Let me tell you what I've got.

There are people who have been through far worse than you, and they do not turn to god for salvation. Rather, they become stronger people on their own merits and/or with the help of others through secular means. I honestly believe only the weak minded turn to imaginary guidance and comfort.

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(April 6, 2013 at 5:58 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: How about this: your scientific "theories", created by fallible men and women, are not accepted by any credible people in the Christian community. See.what I did there? ;-)

The christian community is only credible according to its own god delusion.

I apologize I meant this to be posted to missluckie.

You already stated that you hope there is a God, which means you believe in the possibility of a God. So everything you say is just you contradicting yourself. And I know this point is moot, especially in an online forum, because no one here will sway in the others direction. The bottom line is that you can't prove to me that God doesn't exist, and you obviously won't believe that there is any sort of proof regarding the existence of God. End of story.

(April 6, 2013 at 5:53 am)missluckie26 Wrote:

Quote:The misspelling was on purpose, trying to be humorous, guess I failed. Oh, you missed the Baptist part. You should have looked at religious view darling

If you're trying to convince proponents (look that up) that you're intelligent in a debate-like setting: just a suggestion--spell it correctly. Unless you want to put /joke behind it, you're just going to end up looking ignorant, darling.

I'm trying to give you a break here darling, I've not been back here long, but everyone who has been here for a time knows exactly why I misspelled Southern Baptist. Like I said look at my religious view and you will see the correct spelling, OK.

(April 6, 2013 at 6:07 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: You already stated that you hope there is a God.

The bottom line is that you can't prove to me that God doesn't exist.

I stated no such thing.

Trying to disprove the existence of god is as absurd as trying to disprove the existence of leprechauns. I KNOW there is no god just as I KNOW leprechauns are not real.

Quote:Those are your assertions not assertions from God. Let me tell you what I've got.. I've got an entire family history of horrible sin. My family history is full of drugs, violence, laziness, and many more things that I cannot put on this forum for self embarrassment and pain. I've got parents who loved whiskey more than me. I actually was on my own at fifteen, stealing just to eat. No bullshit here. And I've got a God and Savior who freed me from suicidal thoughts, irrational anger, and addictions to things I won't say. He freed me from the abuse of my past and everything that was holding me down. I am no longer defined by what once was, and I am a new creation. When you run into issues like these, the ones that make you.think life isn't such a good idea, where do you turn? I firmly believe every word of the Bible and even if I were the only one left in the world, going to my death for my beliefs, then they would still never change. You can argue all the science you want, but when it comes down to it, as long as I believe in God, then no human mind can compare to His. How are we to comprehend his will and plans? I AK not skilled enough to understand these, but each day I learn a little more. And each day my faith becomes more unbreakable.

Are you sure that it wasn't just you who got you through that? I have family history too. Suicide, yes. Drugs/alcohol, yes. If you read some of my posts you'll see just how dark life has gotten for me. I too thought I was living his plans, living my life for him. I thought he got me through things.
But looking back, I got me through those things, while wondering where he was.
As for suicide: I used to be against it because I believed it was a road directly to hell (and that my family members are in hell). Now as a non-believer, I just realize that it's incredibly selfish to kill oneself, and a waste of the only life you have. I don't need a consequence other than the natural default consequences (In real life) to keep me from committing suicide. Every day, it's on my mind because I have immediate family members (2) who are religious (Christian) and are suicidal. They would rather die and go to heaven, than live here on this earth. One's passive in his attempts, the other has tried jumping out of a moving vehicle. Every day I expect the worst call of my life. But I'm not suicidal.

I've been addicted to drugs before, but I don't deal with those addictions anymore. At one point I was on the equivalent of 60 percocets a day (medically necessary up until the day I quit). I don't need god to strengthen me every day, I do it on my own. You do too. You know what got me off of those drugs? A 3 day hospital stay and lots and lots of endured pain and my own resolution in knowing that there is no quality to life on those drugs. I was on them unwillingly, so I saw what they did to my life as an intrusion. There's many paths to realization though. I bet you can identify yours, and I bet your resolution didn't come "because God doesn't want me to do drugs".

I am no longer defined by what I once was, either. Nor what was done to me. Granted, one can never fully forget but I've made an active choice as you seem to have also--to move past it as best I can. Everything is still possible without god. Every day I grow, too. But I build myself up, I don't place that responsibility on anyone or anything other than myself.

(April 6, 2013 at 6:10 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 6:07 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: You already stated that you hope there is a God.

The bottom line is that you can't prove to me that God doesn't exist.

I stated no such thing.

Trying to disprove the existence of god is as absurd as trying to disprove the existence of leprechauns. I KNOW there is no god just as I KNOW leprechauns are not real.

I amended my post. It was meant for missluckie who did post that.