(April 6, 2013 at 9:42 pm)Godschild Wrote: @ missluckie26, there are others who say there is no proof of dark matter, and just because there are dark patches millions of light years from here does not mean there is dark matter. Yes air can be seen through a microscope, no one has a picture of dark matter. Like I said before if they did it would be plastered everywhere. As for your description of air, I can apply that to God, just because you can't see His work doesn't mean others do not.

Here's the difference: everyone can have direct experiential evidence with air. Everyone. It's as simply as blowing up a balloon, or, you know, breathing in.

However, not everyone can do that with god. And of those that can, they always seem to disagree about what they experience. That's the difference between something demonstrable and something that's not: only one of these two things is consistent.

(April 6, 2013 at 10:17 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 9:42 pm)Godschild Wrote: @ missluckie26, there are others who say there is no proof of dark matter, and just because there are dark patches millions of light years from here does not mean there is dark matter. Yes air can be seen through a microscope, no one has a picture of dark matter. Like I said before if they did it would be plastered everywhere. As for your description of air, I can apply that to God, just because you can't see His work doesn't mean others do not.

Here's the difference: everyone can have direct experiential evidence with air. Everyone. It's as simply as blowing up a balloon, or, you know, breathing in.

However, not everyone can do that with god. And of those that can, they always seem to disagree about what they experience. That's the difference between something demonstrable and something that's not: only one of these two things is consistent.

I did not say very one would experience God, it is obvious that will never happen. I said I could apply the air deal to God, for those who want to know He's real. Is that a better example? I have said I can not give those who do not want to experience God proof He exist. Only God can prove Himself to people and He will do that only to those who look for the truth of God.

(April 7, 2013 at 4:05 am)Godschild Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 10:17 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Here's the difference: everyone can have direct experiential evidence with air. Everyone. It's as simply as blowing up a balloon, or, you know, breathing in.

However, not everyone can do that with god. And of those that can, they always seem to disagree about what they experience. That's the difference between something demonstrable and something that's not: only one of these two things is consistent.

I did not say very one would experience God, it is obvious that will never happen. I said I could apply the air deal to God, for those who want to know He's real. Is that a better example? I have said I can not give those who do not want to experience God proof He exist. Only God can prove Himself to people and He will do that only to those who look for the truth of God.

I agree with you Godschild. I also see your reasoning Esquilax. Everyone has proof of air, whereas only some have proof of God. True believers in God, like myself, do come into contact with God on occasion. There are Christians out there right now that really believe John 14:12-14 and they do amazing things in the name of Christ. I do believe however, that by the time it's all over, everyone will have an experience with God. But until then, it's just argument after debate after opinions.

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(April 6, 2013 at 9:12 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 8:13 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: Hah! Don't do that. I'm not questioning the Bible, never have and never will. But I should learn the arguments of others, so that I can better equip myself with a defense. That's it.

But I say you are Drew. You are not following you bible as you should, ergo you are on your way to being agnostic in the least, atheistic at best. And you should question everything including you babble.

How am I not following the Bible as I should? Nowhere does it say that I should not debate the subject of my faith or God. Nowhere does it say, "Don't learn!"

@godschild
As for dark matter: I just showed you a picture of it. Not unlike a picture of a tornado is merely air swirling at high speeds. The matter is affected by it, and you can see the evidence from that combined with the approved laws of physics that prove that the reason for the particles moving that way is dark matter.
Honestly: I don't care whether you believe in it or not, and I'd rather just drop it because this is becoming pestering.

Mr_Dew7

Just for a moment consider this. People do amazing things for many reasons. It's not anything externally doing those things: it's them. They're doing it.
I've "experienced" what you have. And I can logically explain every single experience I had, every prayer, every tear, every feeling of well-being: to being myself, with no god there whatsoever. Every emotion I went through was for all intensive purposes real because I made them real. If I go out into public looking for a particular thing I will see it everywhere. Much like one can live every day looking for signs from god, and see them everywhere. Every "act of god" in my life was just life: it's convoluted to think that god shifts people's hearts, and actions, and the world around us: just so something can happen in our favor. Especially when not a single thing is shifted for those who really need it. For those who die without it.

(April 7, 2013 at 4:45 am)missluckie26 Wrote: @godschild
As for dark matter: I just showed you a picture of it. Not unlike a picture of a tornado is merely air swirling at high speeds. The matter is affected by it, and you can see the evidence from that combined with the approved laws of physics that prove that the reason for the particles moving that way is dark matter.
Honestly: I don't care whether you believe in it or not, and I'd rather just drop it because this is becoming pestering.

Mr_Dew7

Just for a moment consider this. People do amazing things for many reasons. It's not anything externally doing those things: it's them. They're doing it.
I've "experienced" what you have. And I can logically explain every single experience I had, every prayer, every tear, every feeling of well-being: to being myself, with no god there whatsoever. Every emotion I went through was for all intensive purposes real because I made them real. If I go out into public looking for a particular thing I will see it everywhere. Much like one can live every day looking for signs from god, and see them everywhere. Every "act of god" in my life was just life: it's convoluted to think that god shifts people's hearts, and actions, and the world around us: just so something can happen in our favor. Especially when not a single thing is shifted for those who really need it. For those who die without it.

While I respect your opinion, I cannot find another explanation for what I have been through, nor do I want to. I don't believe any human can heal the sick, or raise the dead, without divine assitance. And of course I see God everywhere, because that's where the Bible says He is. In any case, thanks for conversing! I did just post a new thread though, if you want to check it out. I asked everyone to give proof for or against God, to see what everyone would have to say.

Are you going to show proof for healing of the sick or raising of the dead in that thread?

(April 7, 2013 at 4:45 am)missluckie26 Wrote: Mr_Dew7

Just for a moment consider this. People do amazing things for many reasons. It's not anything externally doing those things: it's them. They're doing it.
I've "experienced" what you have. And I can logically explain every single experience I had, every prayer, every tear, every feeling of well-being: to being myself, with no god there whatsoever. Every emotion I went through was for all intensive purposes real because I made them real. If I go out into public looking for a particular thing I will see it everywhere. Much like one can live every day looking for signs from god, and see them everywhere. Every "act of god" in my life was just life: it's convoluted to think that god shifts people's hearts, and actions, and the world around us: just so something can happen in our favor. Especially when not a single thing is shifted for those who really need it. For those who die without it.

I see what God does for me and I know Mr_Dew7 does also, I bet like myself he sees what God does for others and rejoices in them, this is what Christianity is about, others. You must have missed that when you went to church, you seem to also express a great deal of emotionalism to Christianity, I'm beginning to think you may not have studied scripture very much. It's especially awesome when I see God doing for those who are truly in need, and believe me I've seen it many times and was move by God's compassion.

(April 7, 2013 at 5:45 am)Godschild Wrote: I bet like myself he sees what God does for others and rejoices in them, this is what Christianity is about, others. You must have missed that when you went to church

I shared in the fellowship of mass delusion, but thankfully I was not so far gone that my mind was completely lost to the fantasy of falsities.

(April 7, 2013 at 4:57 am)missluckie26 Wrote: Are you going to show proof for healing of the sick or raising of the dead in that thread?

How could I do that? With videos that you will refute? If you want to see miracles like this, then I urge you to attend a revival meeting somewhere. And no I am not proselytizing here, just saying that that is where you will get proof.

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(April 7, 2013 at 5:49 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 7, 2013 at 5:45 am)Godschild Wrote: I bet like myself he sees what God does for others and rejoices in them, this is what Christianity is about, others. You must have missed that when you went to church

I shared in the fellowship of mass delusion, but thankfully I was not so far gone that my mind was completely lost to the fantasy of falsities.

You truly are just anti-theist aren't you? You aren't atheist right? You just despise the concept of God?

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(April 7, 2013 at 5:45 am)Godschild Wrote: I see what God does for me and I know Mr_Dew7 does also, I bet like myself he sees what God does for others and rejoices in them, this is what Christianity is about, others. You must have missed that when you went to church, you seem to also express a great deal of emotionalism to Christianity, I'm beginning to think you may not have studied scripture very much. It's especially awesome when I see God doing for those who are truly in need, and believe me I've seen it many times and was move by God's compassion.

Thank you Godschild! I appreciate you posting your opinion on the subject! I am glad to be able to speak to someone who is like-minded in the matter of God's existence, omnipotence, and love. And I do know what you mean! I have seen God do amazing things, turn lives around, pull people from proverbial ledges (and real ones) and just heal those who love Him and are willing to admit that they can't do it on their own. And because of God, I now do not want for anything! He really meant it when He said He will never leave us nor forsake us!! (Deuteronomy 31:6)

Revival meeting. I looked it up for the definition in order to find out what denonimation you may be talking about that I attend, and here's the first video I found.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhC9lYVnOZA

Honestly, I'd rather shoot myself in the foot. Do you have any videos that portray what it is you think I might gain from attending such a meeting?
If someone is "healed" in a meeting, do you take it as assumed proof that they are healed, or do you follow up after they've confirmed with the doctors that their malady is no longer present?

Also since you agree with Godschilds' assessment that I missed that Christianity is about others when I went to church, I'm going to go ahead here and respond to both of you. Although, I'm pretty sure I've talked to Godschild about these matters already.

1. Studied scripture plenty, recited biblical stories verbatum since I could talk.
2. Attended Christian schools for years, homeschooled on Christian curriculum for years. One mandatory subject, called BIBLE, I excelled in. Another mandatory requirement: Reading the bible from front to back.
3. My dad gave the money out of his pocket--all of it-- and still does to this day, when he meets someone he feels would benefit from it in the name of god. For the recod, he's the one whose passively suicidal. I literally had to call the police to find him 2yrs ago because he told me he was going to stop drinking and eating and crawl in a hole and die. He, unlike me, studies the word of god every single day. And I do credit that fact to his not committing suicide directly. I also credit the bible with being his inspiration for not seeking treatment for his mental and physical maladies.
4. My mom lives her life for others, every day. She takes care of blind, deaf, mute all in one patients who live life from morning to night, vomitting on themselves and choking on their own sputum. She is their reason for waking up every morning, she sings to them and gives them that feeling of being taken care of that they so desperately need.
5. I myself grew up helping others in any way I could. My mom's clients, I helped her care for. The sickest of the sick I was able to bring smiles to their faces and happiness to their lives. In middle school I prevented a suicide. In elementary school I was strong enough to stop a horrific family wide curse in the form of telling my mom and the police what they're doing to all the women in my family when I found out it wasn't just me being victimized. Then I forgave that person 2yrs later on their deathbed from a quadruple by-pass and went to them. They didn't die. I still have a relationship with them to this day.
In highschool I volunteered every single night after school from 4pm-11pm in the nursing home, aiding my mom with her duties as a CNA. I bathed, changed, and fed the elderly, called them grandma and grandpa, held the hands of those for hours who decided it was time to stop eating, etc. Sometimes I could get them to eat, but they would die eventually. I'd sing to them. In church I would feel like those there didn't have any connection to god and that the pastor didn't have any connection to the things that I'd seen and experienced in my life thusfar, so I'd go volunteer in the nursery to escape it.

When I turned 18 I was so angry at god for so many things that I disowned him, and did all those things a free-willed teenager is going to do. Okay, no, I was on the extreme of that spectrum. I became a stripper for a little bit, I did drugs, I lived life day to day for me myself and I. I partied more than I didn't. But I still held a FT Job at mortgage company and as lead teller at a bank. I walked to work until I could afford myself a car. I was 19. I also continued with my enrollment in college, got a full ride for my grades, and was pre-med from then on with the plan of doing doctors without borders since I'd taken french in HS for four years towards that goal of aiding Africa.
And that's when I was hit with my first official 'flare' in a hereditary auto-immune disease that almost killed me. Numerous times.
I lost everything that year, my life that I'd worked so hard for on my own: my home, my car, my classes, a baby, everything. So I turned to god.
And I spent the next 6yrs in absolute hell being treated with cytoxan (mustard gas derivitive) chemotherapy. My entire family converted to god based on my faith kept during my illness. I had such trust in god that I did as my pastor and family told me to, and I decided to allow god to do his healing work on my body without the intervention of the chemotherapy medications which were not working. I got my forehead anointed with oil, and I refused treatment for six months, and I gave god my full faith like that of a child. That's when my body took a nose dive. The doctors themselves almost killed me a couple times during this time. For instance, with a chest port that was put in too deeply in my heart creating a clot on top of the fact that I was bleeding internally from the effects of my disease. Needless to say this caused an ICU visit for me for a couple days.
Laying there listening to codes that you know are life and death calls and hoping to god you don't get one of those, praying for those fights as they happen.. Crying when you find out the result. It makes you think about whether you're alone or not. I was disallusioned the moment my body gave out on me and I needed ICU revival. I'd always been told that god would be there, and he wasn't. That one fact didn't dissuade me from my faith but I never forgot it. I paid attention after that, and did as my family told me to do. I prayed for answers for four years. FOUR YEARS. And got none.

I still live my life for others to this day. And I read the bible every day too. You know when you put bible verses up? I look them up. Then I scoff because
I'm not the one who needs a reality check.