(April 14, 2013 at 6:59 pm)archangle Wrote: what is the problem with traits of god that change with new observations?

If someone has actually observed a god I want to hear a lot more about that observation than some trait or other.

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(April 14, 2013 at 10:31 pm)Tex Wrote:

(April 9, 2013 at 9:20 am)Texas Sailor Wrote: God created (blank) from...


What material?

...and using what level of approximate power? (limited or omnipotent)

Don't wanna make assumptions, I'll wait for a Christian to fill me in.

God created (all real things) from (his love*), only possible through (omnipotence).

*That actually isn't what we're constructed from though, it's his motivation for creating. Otherwise I'll go ex nihilo and say we are not made out of anything already existing.

Parenthetical words are not meant to be read. "God created from only possible through" makes no sense at all. If you wish to insert the parenthetical words then you must produce physical evidence, NOT argumentation, as to their factual nature. Care to take a shot at it?

I was notating where the blanks would be. Anyway:

God created all real things from his love, which is only possible through omnipotence.

Quote:God created all real things from his love, which is only possible through omnipotence.

Which is nothing if not a fantastic argument against the assertion that God created all real things through his 'love'.

No doubt you except from the 'real things' category all the horrible and nasty things in this world which are totally not God's fault. Either that, or you're like Drich and believe that rape and murder and slavery are righteous and good as long as they are done at God's command.

(April 15, 2013 at 12:58 am)Tex Wrote: I was notating where the blanks would be. Anyway:

God created all real things from his love, which is only possible through omnipotence.

wrong. You only have to be "strong" enough to do it. God only shows you the strenght you already had.

(April 15, 2013 at 8:41 am)archangle Wrote:

(April 15, 2013 at 12:58 am)Tex Wrote: I was notating where the blanks would be. Anyway:

God created all real things from his love, which is only possible through omnipotence.

wrong. You only have to be "strong" enough to do it. God only shows you the strenght you already had.

I don't if this is supposed to be some or he was drunk...

(April 15, 2013 at 1:37 am)Ryantology Wrote: Which is nothing if not a fantastic argument against the assertion that God created all real things through his 'love'.

Depends on your understanding of love. Certainly, the emotional affections of human beings does not create directly. Human love does however reflect the nature of Divine Love. While this idea has been expressed in various ways, I think of it as this: a disposition to instantiate and unify. Not to dismiss the role of entropy in the Divine Order, but it does seem that life, contrary to being a random occurence also reflects this inherent ability of the physical world to self-organize.

(April 15, 2013 at 1:31 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(April 15, 2013 at 1:37 am)Ryantology Wrote: Which is nothing if not a fantastic argument against the assertion that God created all real things through his 'love'.

Depends on your understanding of love. Certainly, the emotional affections of human beings does not create directly. Human love does however reflect the nature of Divine Love. While this idea has been expressed in various ways, I think of it as this: a disposition to instantiate and unify. Not to dismiss the role of entropy in the Divine Order, but it does seem that life, contrary to being a random occurence also reflects this inherent ability of the physical world to self-organize.

Hey man! I thought we agreed...No more creative assertions until we have some list of attributes to analyze. Without that, we have no way to establish whether you have a plausible baseline for your assumptions at all.

(April 15, 2013 at 12:58 am)Tex Wrote: I was notating where the blanks would be. Anyway:

God created all real things from his love, which is only possible through omnipotence.

Who told you that and why did you believe them?

That is a very simple question. Do you have an answer?

(April 15, 2013 at 1:31 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(April 15, 2013 at 1:37 am)Ryantology Wrote: Which is nothing if not a fantastic argument against the assertion that God created all real things through his 'love'.

Depends on your understanding of love. Certainly, the emotional affections of human beings does not create directly. Human love does however reflect the nature of Divine Love.

That is the whole point. Why are humans, as nasty and wicked and cruel as some of us are, capable of deeper and more resilient love than your god?

Quote:While this idea has been expressed in various ways, I think of it as this: a disposition to instantiate and unify. Not to dismiss the role of entropy in the Divine Order, but it does seem that life, contrary to being a random occurence also reflects this inherent ability of the physical world to self-organize.

If this were the case, life would spring up everywhere in the universe, as life is the most profound example of self-organization of which we've seen, and so far as we are currently aware, it is an example which requires ridiculously exacting circumstances to happen (which, by the way, is as far from 'random' as you get).

(April 17, 2013 at 9:15 am)Ryantology Wrote: If this were the case, life would spring up everywhere in the universe, as life is the most profound example of self-organization of which we've seen, and so far as we are currently aware, it is an example which requires ridiculously exacting circumstances to happen (which, by the way, is as far from 'random' as you get).

It remains to be seen whether life is as you say springing up everywhere in the universe. The universe is a pretty big place. I put my money on finding extraterrestrial life someday.