(April 17, 2013 at 6:01 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Let me see if I get this straight, GC...
You get the info from other people that there is a divine entity which is invisible, untouchable and, basically, has no measurable physical interaction with our world, but it's out there, somewhere. Those other people also tell you that this entity does interact with our world through people's emotions, feelings and whatnot...
You take this information about this entity, accept it as trustworthy and proceed to confirm this information with a book the same people present to you.

Your mind then accepts the existence of the entity as real and proceeds to interpret some of your "emotions, feelings and whatnot" as an interaction of this entity within you.

You then proceed to let us know about this entity, in the hopes, I guess, that we find that information trustworthy, and go through the same process you went through...

Did I miss something?
I must have, because I fail to see where the entity showed to you that it is real...
It doesn't seem to present itself to human beings through a means other than previous suggestion induced by other human beings... and knowing that the human mind can fool itself using this mechanism, we assume you are under this very mental mechanism of self-delusion.

I'll go with post #93.

---

(April 17, 2013 at 5:20 pm)Godschild Wrote:

---

Ok, here it is, if I did not exercise my free will and choose Christ as my savior I would remain lost in my sin. However I exercised my free will and accepted Christ into my life as Lord and Savior, thus with repentance I'm freed of my sins.

---

Ryan Wrote:And now you're freed of thinking for yourself, because now you just have to do whatever you think God tells you to do.

I listen to God, yes, and try and live a life pleasing to Him, which I do poorly. Jesus said, "You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free." Having the God who created the universe to guide my life beats anything the world can teach.

GC Wrote:

---

Now you on the other hand still live in guilt and I see that as a sad condition in anyone's life. You wanted it so I gave you the answer, if it upsets you blame yourself.

---

Ryan Wrote:You're suggesting I live in guilt for breaking a law handed down by a being I regard as entirely fictional? I feel guilt when I do wrong to actual, real people. I don't feel guilt when my actions offend a fictional character. Do you even possess the capacity to understand that, or are you pathologically incapable of grasping a worldview that isn't saturated in your ridiculous fairytales?

Whether you believe in Him or not does not dismiss His authority. Some criminals who break the law believe the law is irrelevant, this does not mean the law is dismissed or the authority behind the law. I have my worldview, just because it does not match yours does not mean it's invalid. In actuality it seems I'm the one who comprehends reality.

GC Wrote:

---

When did God hold a knife to my throat, I must have missed that, please show me with biblical support how this happened without me knowing, books, chapters and verses please, I need to study this.

---

Ryan Wrote:You go on and on about salvation and being saved and I won't give you a serious answer to such a disingenuous query. You can play stupid, but that game isn't multiplayer.

Prove I'm disingenuous in my salvation or even to my claim to be saved.
You're the one who said God held a knife to my throat, I asked you to get off your lazy butt and prove it through the only place you could possibly find the proof, scripture, you're the one who made it multi-player by accusation.

---

(April 17, 2013 at 9:14 pm)Waratah Wrote: Let us focus on what you said godschild, all of it not just part of it.

Quote:The knowledge of God's existence does not contravene God given free will, I did not say it did, what I said was when Christ returns your free will is gone, no more, vanished, taken away and ect. This is the price of rejection people will pay, there's no free ride in life why would you believe there would be with God.

You have stated quite clearly and consistently that when christ returns you will lose free will. I accept and understand that is what you have said.

Directly after saying that you stated the reason for the loss of free will is due to 'rejection of god'. So far you continue to just ignore this part. Why?

I can easily accept the when you die part you lose free will. Can you please tell me the reason for losing free will when christ returns if it is not because of the rejection of god as you have stated before?

When Christ returns the time for repentance for those who have rejected Christ is over, the ones who want the physical proof will have it, however it want count for much except they get their proof. Remember that scripture teaches salvation comes through faith not proof.
If the knowledge of God is what confuses you in what I've said let me explain. Salvation comes through faith, after this one can come into a belief of God through scripture and prayer, after this one can come to a knowledge of who God is through His revelation whether in scripture or a life situation or direct revelation. Knowledge of God comes after salvation, some times many years, it depends upon the persons desire. I hope this answers your question.

---

(April 18, 2013 at 12:59 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 17, 2013 at 5:20 pm)Godschild Wrote: Please show me the biblical proof of what you've stated, books, chapters and verses please, I need to study those so I can see where my error is, thanks.

Don't be pathetic, GC. I'm not going to play into your bullshit here, you know what I'm talking about, but even if I did decide to bend over backwards for you, do you really thing this head in the sand idiocy would stand for more than a single post? Stop delaying and address the fucking point.

When you get rid of the bull in your replies you might find I'll give you answers. God does not hold a gun to anyone's head.

(April 18, 2013 at 7:42 am)Godschild Wrote:

(April 17, 2013 at 6:01 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Let me see if I get this straight, GC...
You get the info from other people that there is a divine entity which is invisible, untouchable and, basically, has no measurable physical interaction with our world, but it's out there, somewhere. Those other people also tell you that this entity does interact with our world through people's emotions, feelings and whatnot...
You take this information about this entity, accept it as trustworthy and proceed to confirm this information with a book the same people present to you.

Your mind then accepts the existence of the entity as real and proceeds to interpret some of your "emotions, feelings and whatnot" as an interaction of this entity within you.

You then proceed to let us know about this entity, in the hopes, I guess, that we find that information trustworthy, and go through the same process you went through...

Did I miss something?
I must have, because I fail to see where the entity showed to you that it is real...
It doesn't seem to present itself to human beings through a means other than previous suggestion induced by other human beings... and knowing that the human mind can fool itself using this mechanism, we assume you are under this very mental mechanism of self-delusion.

I'll go with post #93.

LOL!
Good one! You got me!

But how did you come to know about this god/christ fellow you talk about?

(April 18, 2013 at 7:42 am)Godschild Wrote: When you get rid of the bull in your replies you might find I'll give you answers. God does not hold a gun to anyone's head.

Not literally, no. But what else would you call a choice like this: "You can believe in me or not, you've got free will. But if you don't believe in me, I'm going to send you to a magical land full of pain and suffering when you die, and that'll never end." How can you possibly think that this choice is fair and balanced in any way? How is it that you're unable to see the threat there, the "gun" I was talking about?

If a criminal approached me and offered me a choice thusly: "You can give me your wallet or not, but if you don't I'm going to kneecap you," and I get kneecapped, would you think it's my fault? "What do you want from the guy? He told you what would happen if you didn't give him your wallet!"

The reality of the situation is that, according to your theology, I've been forced into a choice I never wanted, and given heavily punitive measures if I opt to choose one option. How can you possibly think this is consistent with actual free will?

(April 18, 2013 at 9:45 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(April 18, 2013 at 7:42 am)Godschild Wrote: I'll go with post #93.

LOL!
Good one! You got me!

But how did you come to know about this god/christ fellow you talk about?

I was raised in church and became a Christian as a teenager, much later than most at my church. By the time I graduated from high school I left church and found the world and lived as the world for years. Returned to church and found a true relationship with Christ. This is the short of it, would take to long to write the details as they are many.

---

(April 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 18, 2013 at 7:42 am)Godschild Wrote:

---

When you get rid of the bull in your replies you might find I'll give you answers. God does not hold a gun to anyone's head.

---

Not literally, no. But what else would you call a choice like this: "You can believe in me or not, you've got free will. But if you don't believe in me, I'm going to send you to a magical land full of pain and suffering when you die, and that'll never end." How can you possibly think that this choice is fair and balanced in any way? How is it that you're unable to see the threat there, the "gun" I was talking about?

If a criminal approached me and offered me a choice thusly: "You can give me your wallet or not, but if you don't I'm going to kneecap you," and I get kneecapped, would you think it's my fault? "What do you want from the guy? He told you what would happen if you didn't give him your wallet!"

The reality of the situation is that, according to your theology, I've been forced into a choice I never wanted, and given heavily punitive measures if I opt to choose one option. How can you possibly think this is consistent with actual free will?

You're comparing God to a criminal, God is not trying to rob you, He wants you to come into a relationship with Him, you don't have to. This entire universe belongs to God everything, even your life. He gave you your life and He has given you everything you have, what kind of criminal gives. Your rejection of His love is where one goes wrong.

(April 18, 2013 at 6:35 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(April 18, 2013 at 9:45 am)pocaracas Wrote: LOL!
Good one! You got me!

But how did you come to know about this god/christ fellow you talk about?

I was raised in church and became a Christian as a teenager, much later than most at my church. By the time I graduated from high school I left church and found the world and lived as the world for years. Returned to church and found a true relationship with Christ. This is the short of it, would take to long to write the details as they are many.

Thus confirming the start of my description of you:

(April 17, 2013 at 6:01 pm)pocaracas Wrote: You get the info from other people that there is a divine entity which is invisible, untouchable and, basically, has no measurable physical interaction with our world, but it's out there, somewhere.

What comes next?...
Define your deity for me, please.
Characterize how it interacts with our world, what sort of proof do you have for its existence that makes you stand by such existence so avidly.

(April 17, 2013 at 5:20 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(April 17, 2013 at 5:41 am)Waratah Wrote: Not really sure how you cannot see how I came to that conclusion.

As soon as you put a condition on the use of free will it is NOT free will anymore. Even if you are in agreeance with the condition, free will is gone.

This is what you said

The condition in this case is accepting god. "... price of rejection people will pay..."

If you have the ability to laugh at yourself, you maybe now rolling on the floor. Let us hope it is a at least.

There is no condition in what I stated, you are wanting to see something that's not there to make your argument valid in your own mind. You have free will till you die or Christ returns, which ever comes first.
Actually there is nothing to laugh about, it's sad when people ignore God's truth.

Just in case you missed my post I decided to use the reply of one of your posts godschild so to make sure whether you are avoiding my questions just like Drich did in his avoiding question thread or just missed it.

Here is my post

Let us focus on what you said godschild, all of it not just part of it.

Quote:The knowledge of God's existence does not contravene God given free will, I did not say it did, what I said was when Christ returns your free will is gone, no more, vanished, taken away and ect. This is the price of rejection people will pay, there's no free ride in life why would you believe there would be with God.

You have stated quite clearly and consistently that when christ returns you will lose free will. I accept and understand that is what you have said.

Directly after saying that you stated the reason for the loss of free will is due to 'rejection of god'. So far you continue to just ignore this part. Why?

I can easily accept the when you die part you lose free will. Can you please tell me the reason for losing free will when christ returns if it is not because of the rejection of god as you have stated before?

Quote:Prove I'm disingenuous in my salvation or even to my claim to be saved.
You're the one who said God held a knife to my throat, I asked you to get off your lazy butt and prove it through the only place you could possibly find the proof, scripture, you're the one who made it multi-player by accusation.

What was disingenuous was your pretend ignorance of the viewpoint that God's salvation is a hostage situation. Lord knows I've brought it up to you before in our various interactions, it's an important insight to the nature of your faith.

But, if you insist, it can be summed up as "Accept Christ or burn in hell".

(April 18, 2013 at 8:42 pm)Ryantology Wrote:

Quote:Prove I'm disingenuous in my salvation or even to my claim to be saved.
You're the one who said God held a knife to my throat, I asked you to get off your lazy butt and prove it through the only place you could possibly find the proof, scripture, you're the one who made it multi-player by accusation.

What was disingenuous was your pretend ignorance of the viewpoint that God's salvation is a hostage situation. Lord knows I've brought it up to you before in our various interactions, it's an important insight to the nature of your faith.

But, if you insist, it can be summed up as "Accept Christ or burn in hell".

That's not even close, tell me how am I to explain something to you when you do not believe or care that it exists.

There are a great many Christians who insist that it is precisely like that. I can show you pictures of them carrying signs. And you are powerless to demonstrate that their interpretation of the Christian message is less accurate than yours. Don't waste my time with your apologetics. The book says what the book says.

What all this blathering boils down to is this simple yet quite insightful line from a pop song.

Quote: I have found, you can find, happiness in slavery

And your happy atheist ass can burn in hell if you refuse to accept that you are worthless and unfit to receive the gift of my sacrifice of my human body to forgive you for being exactly as I made you, you ungrateful little piss ant. Now worship me and live for my glory. But by all means, sin as much as the next guy, I like that shit. fap fap fap.
And be sure to kill anyone who disagrees with me, or at the very least, tell them how empty they are for not being a mindless Eloi.

Hey, something to keep in mind. We Morlocks think your babies are tasty. Especially with Town House Crackers and a bit of Franks Red Hot. (I put that shit on everything.)

Disclaimer. I aim this diatribe towards no specific member, or their member for what it's worth. But aim it at the belief itself.
Free fuckin country.

Rant over, soapbox smashed.
Carry on.