Definition of and evidence for the holocaust
May 8, 2013 at 10:55 pm
(This post was last modified: May 8, 2013 at 10:59 pm by A_Nony_Mouse.)
Replay to post at Shoot a Turk and rest
A working definition.
You failed to define holocaust so we can all know what is and is not included. Please rectify this. If you cannot define it just say so. But you must define it so we know what you are talking about. For example, Goldhagen said the holocaust started in Germany in the 1600s. Do you want to support his contention?
Present some of them so we can examine them. The claim of existence of evidence for god is invalid. The same goes for this subject. If as below you want to talk extermination then do not bother presenting anything which does not mention extermination.
Testimony? We do not accept testimony about god. Nor do we accept it for alien abductions. However should you wish to post attributed quotes please feel free to do so but the good character of the source must be established. Testimony under oath with penalty of perjury is the only testimony of interest as we can reasonably assume the lawyers established character if it would pass muster in the US as a criminal court of law. It ain't testimony if it is just someone running his mouth.
Post the photographs but be certain you have defined your holocaust and identify the features in those pictures which support your definition. Hint: A caption is arbitrary. The picture must stand on its own without caption. Traceability, as to origin and chain of custody, as would be required in any criminal case is also an elementary requirement.
That there were camps is not a holocaust unless japanese-americans can claim their own holocaust. IF your DEFINITION of holocaust you provide includes extermination then be certain to produce the physical evidence as in any murder trial for the weapon and the action.
Argumentation is not permitted here any more than are pro-god arguments. If you have pre- and post war world population figures be certain to post them so we can subtract and find the difference is in fact six million IF that is part of your definition. If not don't bother. But if world census figures before and after are not presented you don't have anything of interest. This is subtraction not inference. The difference between the world pop figures is what matters. How about say 1938 and 1948 as boundary dates for population figures?
You have a long way to go and I will play atheist to your theist belief without evidence approach. The claim of the existence of evidence is not evidence. It is just a claim.
(May 8, 2013 at 9:50 pm)cratehorus Wrote:(May 8, 2013 at 9:36 pm)A_Nony_Mouse Wrote: Instead of presenting physical evidence you try to explain away the absence of physical evidence of your holy holocaust with absurd assertions despite the mountains of physical evidence for your three examples.
Maybe you holohuggers do not know the claim that there are mountains of evidence for the gassing of 13 million people of which 6 million were Jews is the greatest lie of them all. You believers should be getting a hint of it by now when not one single example from those mountains of evidence has been presented. (Fill in any of the many popular numbers in place of the one's above but evidence your numbers.)
Clearly there is not enough to even start a single thread on the subject. Quite difficult to start a thread on evidence when there is none.
OOOOOH I WANNA PLAY I WANNA PLAY
let's start with.......ummmmm
A working definition.
You failed to define holocaust so we can all know what is and is not included. Please rectify this. If you cannot define it just say so. But you must define it so we know what you are talking about. For example, Goldhagen said the holocaust started in Germany in the 1600s. Do you want to support his contention?
Quote:1.Written documents—hundreds of thousands of letters, memos, blueprints, orders, bills, speeches, articles, memoirs, and confessions.
Present some of them so we can examine them. The claim of existence of evidence for god is invalid. The same goes for this subject. If as below you want to talk extermination then do not bother presenting anything which does not mention extermination.
Quote:2.Eyewitness testimony—accounts from survivors, Jewish Sonderkommandos (who helped load bodies from the gas chambers into the crematoria in exchange for a chance of survival), SS guards, commandants, local townspeople, and even high-ranking Nazis who spoke openly about the mass murder of the Jews.
Testimony? We do not accept testimony about god. Nor do we accept it for alien abductions. However should you wish to post attributed quotes please feel free to do so but the good character of the source must be established. Testimony under oath with penalty of perjury is the only testimony of interest as we can reasonably assume the lawyers established character if it would pass muster in the US as a criminal court of law. It ain't testimony if it is just someone running his mouth.
Quote: 3.Photographs—including official military and press photographs, civilian photographs, secret photographs taken by survivors, aerial photographs, German and Allied film footage, and unofficial photographs taken by the German military.
Post the photographs but be certain you have defined your holocaust and identify the features in those pictures which support your definition. Hint: A caption is arbitrary. The picture must stand on its own without caption. Traceability, as to origin and chain of custody, as would be required in any criminal case is also an elementary requirement.
Quote: 4.The camps themselves—concentration camps, work camps, and extermination camps that still exist in varying degrees of originality and reconstruction.
That there were camps is not a holocaust unless japanese-americans can claim their own holocaust. IF your DEFINITION of holocaust you provide includes extermination then be certain to produce the physical evidence as in any murder trial for the weapon and the action.
Quote: 5.Inferential evidence or argument from silence — population demographics, reconstructed from the pre–World War II era; if six million Jews were not killed, what happened to them?
Argumentation is not permitted here any more than are pro-god arguments. If you have pre- and post war world population figures be certain to post them so we can subtract and find the difference is in fact six million IF that is part of your definition. If not don't bother. But if world census figures before and after are not presented you don't have anything of interest. This is subtraction not inference. The difference between the world pop figures is what matters. How about say 1938 and 1948 as boundary dates for population figures?
You have a long way to go and I will play atheist to your theist belief without evidence approach. The claim of the existence of evidence is not evidence. It is just a claim.
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