(May 21, 2013 at 2:57 pm)goodnews Wrote: Oh really, first you have not a clue what the Gospel is, as you follow the doctrins of a man, who believed Jesus was His own Father ! secondly I am not a Universalist, and have not studied there doctrins, therefore do not know how these verses fit into "their grasp" of Gods salvation plan, so how am I suposed to comment honestly, Now you can not give me one scripture that says God will not save all men, can you no you cant, as for John 3:16 is clearly speaking of believers who will not perish, aposed to non-believers who shall face the second death, as all men are destined to die once, its this second death that we believers are warned about etc etc so if you want to debate weather God is to save all men, give me one verse where it says that NOT ALL MEN WILL BE SAVED !

I gave you two. You attempted to argue about John 3:16, this is my reply: Where in the fuck does John 3:16 talk about a second death? This verse is simple, you either believe and enjoy eternal life or you don't believe and perish. It's that fucking simple. Second death? Now you're just making shit up instead of admitting your mistake.

What's really absurd is that you are arguing against the very basis for your religion. If God is going to save everyone, what need is there for a Christ?

Since I'm dealing with the simple minded, let me put this another way. For the last 30+ years, self involved assholes have spent good money on premium seats to major sporting events, not to watch the action, but to hold up a big sign that states: "John 3:16". Not once have I seen one of these assholes hold up a sign with "1 Timothy 4:10" scrawled on it. Care to consider why?

(May 21, 2013 at 2:57 pm)goodnews Wrote: John 3:16 is clearly speaking of believers who will not perish, aposed to non-believers who shall face the second death, as all men are destined to die once, its this second death that we believers are warned about etc etc so if you want to debate weather God is to save all men, give me one verse where it says that NOT ALL MEN WILL BE SAVED !

Let's look at Revelations 20: 13-15:

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

To me that's pretty clear. The SAVED do not get thrown into the lake of fire.The UNSAVED do. I'm not seeing your point.

(May 21, 2013 at 2:57 pm)goodnews Wrote: give me one verse where it says that NOT ALL MEN WILL BE SAVED !

Matthew 25:43-46

v. 46 and these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

This verse even details only those who can enter eternal life, go find how one becomes righteous before God.
If everyone is going to heaven then why do I need to be care about what Jesus did. That brings up this question, if everyone is going to heaven anyway then why did Christ suffer so?

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@ FaithNoMore, we do not relish in anyone going to an eternal punishment, ever consider that because of forum rules we can't always show what we fill, it would be tagged by someone as preaching, By the way we do really care or we would not be here.

Belivers and non-believers are to be judged with fire , those who believe the Gospel are judged now, 1 Peter 4:16-17 and with this symbolic fire 1 Peter 4:12-13 , 1 Corinthians 3:13-19 , John the Baptist explained this in Matthew 3:11 / It is us the believers who face the chastisement of God in this age, and therefore will not face the second death. God is harvesting His first fruits Hebrews 12:6-7 in this age, The Greek texts of the New Testament use the word "punishment" only one time, yes thats write just once in Hebrews 10:29, and this is a warning to those that believe, and not to non-believers, how can a non-believer trodden under foot what he knows not ? Hebrews 12:29 is how how God explains Himself and His Holy Spirit, "christiandom" teachers that the lake of fire is a literal place, where God will punish His creation endlessly, this is absolute blasphemy, Revelation 21:8 tells us this lake of fire is the second death, its this second death that we believers are constantly warned about in scripture, we avoid this by judgeing ourselfs now, as Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 11:31-32 / Only when you grasp Gods three stage salvation plan in its entirety, { first Christ , then the first fruits, then the great harvest } will you start to understand the scriptures , the first step is to come out of Babylon ie: the churches and their man made evil doctrins, humble yourself like a child and allow the Holy Spirit to teach you, do you not yet know, with men all is but vanity, These despicable doctrins you preach with merciless hate are the opposite, of the Gospel of Good Tidings, /Isaiah 52:7 & 10 " How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; 10. The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. / their you have it, the Gospel, all good tidings , no mention of the majority of creation being roasted alive endlessly by a wicked God without mercy, but you choose not to believe it, your pride will not let you, as you have yourselfs become lover's of lies, you can not even believe 1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. / and here is why Romans 1:22-23 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, The second death is Gods judgement of the great harvest, and that being the majority of men, but this is not their end 1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Gods Holy Spirit is this fire, He will purge all sin from man, many examples are given of this in type and shadow ie: refining silver & gold. We are all to be judged in righteousness eg: Isaiah 26:9 & Acts 17:31 We are not to be tortured endlessly in a literal lake of fire, but this lake of fire is a symbol of our salvation, as we are to be saved by fire as the verses I have given are proof thereof , Do you advocates of hell, believe that after every man kneels before, and confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord Philipians 2:10-11 will then be marched off to go suffer an eternity of torture ? Do you not yet comprehend, our Lord Jesus Christ has overcome the world, there is to be no more suffering, no more pain , no more tears, no more hate, no more sin , no more death, etc etc etc / God The Father will teach all His children the lesson of good and evil, we shall all come to the knowledge of the truth, God will create for Himself a benevolent spiritual family in His own image . Isaiah 46:10-11 Declareing the end from the beginning, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

(May 22, 2013 at 6:38 am)goodnews Wrote:

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Belivers and non-believers are to be judged with fire , those who believe the Gospel are judged now, 1 Peter 4:16-17 and with this symbolic fire 1 Peter 4:12-13 , 1 Corinthians 3:13-19 , John the Baptist explained this in Matthew 3:11 / It is us the believers who face the chastisement of God in this age, and therefore will not face the second death. God is harvesting His first fruits Hebrews 12:6-7 in this age, The Greek texts of the New Testament use the word "punishment" only one time, yes thats write just once in Hebrews 10:29, and this is a warning to those that believe, and not to non-believers, how can a non-believer trodden under foot what he knows not ? Hebrews 12:29 is how how God explains Himself and His Holy Spirit, "christiandom" teachers that the lake of fire is a literal place, where God will punish His creation endlessly, this is absolute blasphemy, Revelation 21:8 tells us this lake of fire is the second death, its this second death that we believers are constantly warned about in scripture, we avoid this by judgeing ourselfs now, as Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 11:31-32 / Only when you grasp Gods three stage salvation plan in its entirety, { first Christ , then the first fruits, then the great harvest } will you start to understand the scriptures , the first step is to come out of Babylon ie: the churches and their man made evil doctrins, humble yourself like a child and allow the Holy Spirit to teach you, do you not yet know, with men all is but vanity, These despicable doctrins you preach with merciless hate are the opposite, of the Gospel of Good Tidings, /Isaiah 52:7 & 10 " How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; 10. The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. / their you have it, the Gospel, all good tidings , no mention of the majority of creation being roasted alive endlessly by a wicked God without mercy, but you choose not to believe it, your pride will not let you, as you have yourselfs become lover's of lies, you can not even believe 1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. / and here is why Romans 1:22-23 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, The second death is Gods judgement of the great harvest, and that being the majority of men, but this is not their end 1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Gods Holy Spirit is this fire, He will purge all sin from man, many examples are given of this in type and shadow ie: refining silver & gold. We are all to be judged in righteousness eg: Isaiah 26:9 & Acts 17:31 We are not to be tortured endlessly in a literal lake of fire, but this lake of fire is a symbol of our salvation, as we are to be saved by fire as the verses I have given are proof thereof , Do you advocates of hell, believe that after every man kneels before, and confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord Philipians 2:10-11 will then be marched off to go suffer an eternity of torture ? Do you not yet comprehend, our Lord Jesus Christ has overcome the world, there is to be no more suffering, no more pain , no more tears, no more hate, no more sin , no more death, etc etc etc / God The Father will teach all His children the lesson of good and evil, we shall all come to the knowledge of the truth, God will create for Himself a benevolent spiritual family in His own image . Isaiah 46:10-11 Declareing the end from the beginning, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

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Do you have a brain of your own or will you keep parroting the bullshit of that old novel?

Jesus fucking christ, even GC inputs some of his own words into his thoughs

(May 14, 2013 at 1:29 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: But without a literal Hell, where are all the atheists going to go?

If god exists, all the evidence suggests that he wants to be left the hell alone.

For that reason, all Atheists will be rewarded beyond measure.

I may be a heretic, but in this respect Swedenborg confirms the orthodox understanding:

570. ... for what a man loves he continually lusts after...and after death, when man becomes a spirit, these evils are changed to anger and hatred against these holy things... Heaven and Hell

4663. …for after death man carries with him all the states of his life, so that he is such as he has been in the body…Everyone retains in the other life the nature which he has acquired in the life of the body; and it is known that a man's nature cannot be cast out, and that if it is cast out, nothing of life remains… he who is in the works of charity, or what is the same, in a life of faith, is capable of receiving faith, if not in the body, yet in the other life; but one who is not in the works of charity, or in a life of faith, is by no means capable of receiving faith, either in the body or in the other life. For evil does not accord with truth, but the one rejects the other… Arcana Coelestia

In other words, in this life you set your direction because you pursue what you love most. In the next, you continue on that path because it brings you delight. The Lord does not take away your love or your life, even if you delight in filthy and disgusting pleasures, the Lord allows you to do so unto eternity. And as far as that goes, all the proof-texts you supplied actually point to this conclusion; the Lord's love never ceases. Because love is our life, but in the unrighteous the love that comes from the Lord is twisted into evils. The good news stands forever, but the evil never avail themselves of it.

Then I have nothing to worry about, and no use for any of this christ nonsense Chad. It's good to know that I can continue living my life, pursuing those things that "bring me delight" and I'll get to do so unto eternity - without having to compromise my integrity by signing onto your horrid cult.

(May 21, 2013 at 3:21 pm)John V Wrote: Hold it, this effect you're talking about is an implied insult? That's it? Christians get direct insults here every day. You don't seem concerned about it.

Those insults are mild compared to being told your lifestyle dictates that you deserve to burn in hell for eternity. I'll take being called an "asshole" over that any day.

(May 21, 2013 at 3:21 pm)John V Wrote: To be frank, you're really coming across as a pussy with this argument.

Good ol' Christian sensitivity. Tell them them they deserve to burn in hell, and when they speak up about it, call them a "pussy."

The only thing I can't figure out is why Christians have a hard time figuring out why atheists can be so hostile towards them.

(May 22, 2013 at 8:22 am)Rhythm Wrote: Then I have nothing to worry about, and no use for any of this christ nonsense Chad. It's good to know that I can continue living my life, pursuing those things that "bring me delight" and I'll get to do so unto eternity - without having to compromise my integrity by signing onto your horrid cult.

With one small exception: all the good that restrains evil from walling in its own filth will be gone. It like the Excorsist... "Your mother sucks cocks in Hell."