(July 20, 2013 at 12:38 am)ronedee Wrote: "absolutely nothing but my own thoughts"...sure bub!

Well, hold on there: you guys are always so quick to treat your words as self evident, but the moment you're asked to substantiate your claims you're remarkably gun-shy, while at the same time retaining that brash self assured confidence in the validity of your own ideas.

How are we supposed to validate that what you're saying is true?

And please, please don't tell me to read the bible. That's circular reasoning.

(July 19, 2013 at 2:04 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(July 19, 2013 at 11:24 am)AnunZi Wrote: I assume you can back this rather wild statement up with facts? Or this just your opinion?


No, all that religion offers is a world view based on a book written 2000 years ago, a book that has no relevance to todays society or social standards. How this can be considered “help and hope” is frankly delusional.
But then we are talking about grown adults who still talk to their imaginary friend.

Given the nature of mental health problems (I have some experience with this as my girlfriend suffers from type II bipolar disorder) offering people the help of your invisible friend is not the answer. Specialist help from trained professionals, coupled with love and support from real people is the way forward.

When does having a friend with a mental illness make someone an expert, I have a friend with bipolar disorder (not a Christian) and it doesn't make me an expert on his illness, so you're only proposing opinion in this matter. Christians offer love and support to those in need and Christian professionals are excellent in their medical fields. Your bias opinion and hatred for the Christian faith is unfounded and insulting. Our faith is in God not a book of study, shows how little you understand Christianity.

A) Please point out where I said I was an expert. The phrase I used was "I have some experience".

B) Personally, I would rather put my trust in a mental health professional who does not talk to an invisible sky daddy. I'd rather have someone with a grounding in reality thanks.

C) Are you suggesting that your stone age world view is not based on a book? Pretty sure the bible was the corner stone of your bullshit last time I checked...

(July 20, 2013 at 6:44 am)AnunZi Wrote: B) Personally, I would rather put my trust in a mental health professional who does not talk to an invisible sky daddy. I'd rather have someone with a grounding in reality thanks.

Christians professionals in mental health have great success with their patience.

AnunZi Wrote:C) Are you suggesting that your stone age world view is not based on a book? Pretty sure the bible was the corner stone of your bullshit last time I checked...

What i believe in is not stone age as you would believe, it is eternal and it comes from the eternal God of creation. The Bible is a study book given to us to aide in our lives. You have no such help in life, only what you perceive as right, even if it's detrimental to others.

(July 20, 2013 at 12:01 am)ronedee Wrote: It seems your bias, distrust and hate for Christians just blinds you to the real deal. You have no openness to any concept that Christianity can have good aspects to it.

No one is saying Christianity hasn't done good things. Its that the benefits don't outweigh the negatives of it. Would you trust a known murderer because he saved your life? I think if you are going to be honest, the answer would be: no

(July 20, 2013 at 12:01 am)ronedee Wrote: God doesn't "make" us do anything! he gave us "life" and "free will" to either love Him or NOT! You choose NOT! I chose to Love Him.

That cannot be more wrong, please research the 'mafia boss' analogy. That sums up the situation quite nicely.

(July 20, 2013 at 12:01 am)ronedee Wrote: Some things are self-evident. Some are not so much. I chose to reach out and find out for myself about God. NO PERSON TOLD ME! Nor a book, or otherwise!

I'm calling bullshit on this. No person told you about Christianity and you didn't read about it in a book? I'm sorry but you are lying. If you were born on an isolated island and stayed there your whole life with no contact from the outside world, you would have no notion of your Christian god at all. Have you ever considered that if you were born in India, chances are you would be Hindu?

(July 20, 2013 at 12:01 am)ronedee Wrote: But you, like MANY don't want answers...because you have all the answers. At least in your own (made-up) minds you do!

How ironic, the situation is actually completely opposite and turned around. None of us have ever claimed to have all the answers and it will be a sad day when we do. Christianity, along with many other religions, hate not knowing things. But when they cannot explain, they turn to god and look no further. He has all the answers so what is the point in looking any further? You see why what you said is quite ridiculous?

(July 20, 2013 at 12:01 am)ronedee Wrote: But, you won't let us! You would see the whole community die for the transgressions of the few. That is wrong! Without Christians in the world there would be a lot less charity. There are no others that give and help more than Christians!

Please present the statistics and surveys that show that Christians are the most charitable group in the world, i'm sure you have done your homework but I think everyone would like to see just how much effort you have put into this.
Also its not really saying much since some christians seem to give to charity for the wrong reasons. Reasons like: because they are scared of going to hell. Whereas everyone else will give money to charity because they honestly want to help.
Another reason Christianity donates to charity so much: Christianity is filthy stinking rich! Do you know how much the Vatican is worth alone? A helluva lot, thats the answer.

(July 20, 2013 at 1:38 pm)Rationalman Wrote: Please present the statistics and surveys that show that Christians are the most charitable group in the world, i'm sure you have done your homework but I think everyone would like to see just how much effort you have put into this.

Also its not really saying much since some christians seem to give to charity for the wrong reasons. Reasons like: because they are scared of going to hell. Whereas everyone else will give money to charity because they honestly want to help.

Another reason Christianity donates to charity so much: Christianity is filthy stinking rich! Do you know how much the Vatican is worth alone? A helluva lot, thats the answer.

Another reason christians CLAIM to give more to charity than non-religious people do: A lot of christians seem to think that donating to their church's building fund (or the priest's new car fund, or whatever) is charity. Since that money doesn't help people in actual need, it does not qualify as charity in my book.

(July 20, 2013 at 1:08 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(July 20, 2013 at 12:38 am)ronedee Wrote: "absolutely nothing but my own thoughts"...sure bub!

Well, hold on there: you guys are always so quick to treat your words as self evident, but the moment you're asked to substantiate your claims you're remarkably gun-shy, while at the same time retaining that brash self assured confidence in the validity of your own ideas.

How are we supposed to validate that what you're saying is true?

And please, please don't tell me to read the bible. That's circular reasoning.

Nothing is "absolute" except: God, death, taxes; and NOT getting a message across to you guys!

What do you need for validation? Would life itself be enough? Its enough for me!

All I get is the million different shades of reasoning from atheists. It's interesting when presented with any kink in the atheist armor the pat answer is..."well we all have different views on atheism." That sounds more like a cop-out. Or agnostic reasoning.

So, I'm still held to some standard of [exact science] and reasoning for my experiences about God. But, you and/or others get to waffle around the place!

I will continue to say that some things about God and religion are self-evident. Some are "spiritual reasoning" in the process of moving toward God.

But you wouldn't have any clue about spiritual reasoning. You wouldn't know where to begin. So ridicule is the order of the day.

It always comes to this around here. Because this isn't about "finding" God. It's about tearing Him down... using whatever method is handy.

I keep thinking the religious fundamentalists are correct. Just throw scripture at you. And hit you with fire and brimstone! Why do I try to reason a path to God using simple terms, and personal example. It's just not worth the efforts. Its really a slighting of God, and His divine power. And my personal witnessing only goes to waste.

There is only one way to God. Jesus Christ! IF you ..."seek, you will find. Ask, and it will be given to you."

How this for an "absolute"? In earnest sincerity "ask"! Guaranteed you will get an answer! But alas, you won't! You would rather ask how I can guarantee that you will?

And that's where the "spiritual" resides. But the only GPS is Jesus for that trip.

(July 21, 2013 at 9:17 pm)ronedee Wrote: But you wouldn't have any clue about spiritual reasoning.

If by spiritual reasoning you mean just because, then you are correct. If I accept god as being real when there is no evidence to support his existence, I might as well also accept that every other thing in the world for which there is no evidentiary support also exists. I might as well start believing that unicorns live in my closet and that leprechauns throw nightly parties under my bed.

(July 21, 2013 at 9:25 pm)Maelstrom Wrote:

(July 21, 2013 at 9:17 pm)ronedee Wrote: But you wouldn't have any clue about spiritual reasoning.

If by spiritual reasoning you mean just because, then you are correct. If I accept god as being real when there is no evidence to support his existence, I might as well also accept that every other thing in the world for which there is no evidentiary support also exists. I might as well start believing that unicorns live in my closet and that leprechauns throw nightly parties under my bed.

And how much do you know from "first hand" experience?

---

(July 20, 2013 at 5:04 pm)Thackerie Wrote:

(July 20, 2013 at 1:38 pm)Rationalman Wrote: Please present the statistics and surveys that show that Christians are the most charitable group in the world, i'm sure you have done your homework but I think everyone would like to see just how much effort you have put into this.

Also its not really saying much since some christians seem to give to charity for the wrong reasons. Reasons like: because they are scared of going to hell. Whereas everyone else will give money to charity because they honestly want to help.

Another reason Christianity donates to charity so much: Christianity is filthy stinking rich! Do you know how much the Vatican is worth alone? A helluva lot, thats the answer.

Another reason christians CLAIM to give more to charity than non-religious people do: A lot of christians seem to think that donating to their church's building fund (or the priest's new car fund, or whatever) is charity. Since that money doesn't help people in actual need, it does not qualify as charity in my book.

I shouldn't even waste a breath on you 2...

but... I believe "OVERWHELMINGLY CHRISTIAN" was used in this wiki post...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith-based_foreign_aid

(July 20, 2013 at 1:32 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(July 20, 2013 at 6:44 am)AnunZi Wrote: B) Personally, I would rather put my trust in a mental health professional who does not talk to an invisible sky daddy. I'd rather have someone with a grounding in reality thanks.

Christians professionals in mental health have great success with their patience.

*Patients.
Irrelevant. If you actually read what I wrote, I said “Personally”, I.E if it were me, I would not want someone treating a mental health condition who is suffering from delusions of a invisible friend.

(July 20, 2013 at 1:32 pm)Godschild Wrote:

AnunZi Wrote:C) Are you suggesting that your stone age world view is not based on a book? Pretty sure the bible was the corner stone of your bullshit last time I checked...

What i believe in is not stone age as you would believe, it is eternal and it comes from the eternal God of creation. The Bible is a study book given to us to aide in our lives. You have no such help in life, only what you perceive as right, even if it's detrimental to others.

It comes from a book mate, that’s the only part of your crap that’s provable. Simple as that.
Despite the, probably, billions of xaitains that have lived over the last 2000 years, not one of you have ever been able to provide a single shred of actual proof that this “god of creation” exists.


Also, you are correct. I have no such “help” in my life. The difference I would use the word “delusion”.

(July 21, 2013 at 9:28 pm)ronedee Wrote: I shouldn't even waste a breath on you 2...

but... I believe "OVERWHELMINGLY CHRISTIAN" was used in this wiki post...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith-based_foreign_aid

Shouldn't? Or Can't? Cause thats what i'm going to assume if you don't answer my points.
This wikipedia article doesn't count as evidence. What is needed is a survey or experiment that is published in some sort of scientific or sociological journal that has been peer reviewed. This article is merely explaining what the report found.

Quote:
the report analyzed more than 50,000 government funding awards by the US Agency for International Development, or USAID, over 5 years of the Bush administration.[citation needed] The Globe discovered that the share of US foreign aid dollars for aid organizations that was going religious groups had doubled, from 10 percent to nearly 20 percent, totaling more than $1.7 billion. Of those funds for so-called "faith-based" organizations, 98% went to Christian groups.

All this article is saying is that Christian groups get more money donated to them than any other religious group, not any other group of people in the world. Which isn't really surprising seeing as Christianity is the dominant religion in america. Please note that you don't have to be Christian to give money to a christian group, this also stands against your claim that Christians are the most charitable people in the world.