(August 7, 2013 at 6:44 pm)ThatMuslimGuy2 Wrote: The best explanation is that God...

Stimbo just proved prophetic.(Pbuh).

Forgive me for going into so much detail over one single word... but it seems to be the key word for this whole argument.
You interpret "assamaa'" as the Universe.... when all it meant was probably the sky, or the paradise, or some inner soul space, like nirvana...

Assamma in Arabic can mean sky, heaven, firmament or Universe.

In many verses of the Quran its use is to refer to the wider universe. As said earkier in the ayah of 51:47, no restriction is placed on the term samaa', it is used without conjunction that imposes a limit. Hence, it means 'everything above', including the whole universe.

Thankyou for the interesting post.

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Along with three other meanings. That's three against your one.

Lol it doesnt work like that.

The argument is simple

1. The verse says And the Samma (Heaven/Universe) we constructed.
The verse states god built the universe.

2. Then straight after says and we are Lamusioona (expanding it).

3. So Quran states Universe is expanding.

(August 7, 2013 at 6:59 pm)ThatMuslimGuy2 Wrote: Lol it doesnt work like that.

Lol, my sentiments exactly when reading your post.

Quote:The argument is simple

1. The verse says And the Samma (Heaven/Universe) we constructed.
The verse states god built the universe.

2. Then straight after says and we are Lamusioona (expanding it).

3. So Quran states Universe is expanding.

Did it mean heaven or did it mean universe? Either it meant heaven or it meant universe or it did not specify which was the one it meant. And with hindsight, you decided it should be both, because now the qur'an would have made a science claim. But in fact, you only came to that realization and picked the interpretation because you ASSUMED the qur'an must be correct and that science must be correct.

And if you keep doing this, this is a game you will always win, but you won't convince anyone of your argument because what you're doing is fooling yourself.

For example, I've hear a lot of muslims argue that evolution doesn't fit with the qur'an, so it will one day be proven wrong. That's because you can't find an interpretation that predicted humans will understand evolution. If you could, you'd be running around saying that proves the qur'an is prophetic.

So whether or not the qur'an actually fits with modern science is not at all an issue to whether or not you believe in it or if anyone believes in it, right? If the qur'an contradicts human knowledge, you stick with whatever the qur'an says, but if it doesn't, then qur'an predicted it. You do see why this entire thing is a cop out?

Did it mean heaven or did it mean universe?

Heaven is a synomyn for universe:
in the ayah of 51:47, no restriction is placed on the term samaa', it is used without conjunction that imposes a limit. Hence, it means 'everything above', including the whole universe.


and picked the interpretation because you ASSUMED the qur'an must be correct and that science must be correct.

What are you on about again its simple.

Quran says:

And the Universe we constructed with strength and We are expanding it.

I havnt assumed anything. I use to be an atheist and statements like these made me convert to Islam. So im not coming from Quran has to be correct viewpoint.

I use to hate Islam and the Quran.

(August 7, 2013 at 7:48 pm)ThatMuslimGuy2 Wrote: What are you on about again its simple.

Quran says:

And the Universe we constructed with strength and We are expanding it.

No it isn't that simple. You have pulled about 20 translations for one small sentence and now you're trying to say that this one sentence is THE translation. It clearly isn't.

Quote:I havnt assumed anything. I use to be an atheist and statements like these made me convert to Islam. So im not coming from Quran has to be correct viewpoint.

I use to hate Islam and the Quran.

Yes you have. See how that's annoying? Don't just make a statement and expect people to take you on faith. You have made the assumption that science is right about the universe. Otherwise the qur'an would have predicted something wrong. Correct? And this is a valid assumption to make.

But now please clarify your position on evolution and prove me wrong.

No it isn't that simple. You have pulled about 20 translations for one small sentence and now you're trying to say that this one sentence is THE translation. It clearly isn't.

Ive explained using arabic dictionaries and tafsirs the meaning if the verse what are you asking for?

But now please clarify your position on evolution and prove me wrong.

Evolution. Studied it at A-Level read it in books e.g Richard Dawkins greatest show on Earth.

Large parts have evidence. It based on facts, theories and hypothesis'

Quran is silent on animal and plant evolution one may believe or not. Quran is silent on natural selection speciation etc

As for Human evolution. Islam is very clear Adam was the first Human.

(August 7, 2013 at 7:58 pm)ThatMuslimGuy2 Wrote: Evolution. Studied it at A-Level read it in books e.g Richard Dawkins greatest show on Earth.

Large parts have evidence. It based on facts, theories and hypothesis'

Quran is silent on animal and plant evolution one may believe or not. Quran is silent on natural selection speciation etc

Ok. Of course it is silent on natural selection.

Quote:As for Human evolution. Islam is very clear Adam was the first Human.

Ok, and what do you think happened? Adam, or evolution from apes?

I accept large parts of it mutation natural selection.

Where as others I am unsure. Which is a logical position to take.

(August 7, 2013 at 8:00 pm)ThatMuslimGuy2 Wrote: I accept large parts of it mutation natural selection.

Where as others I am unsure. Which is a logical position to take.

Why are you avoiding the question?

I don't know what "mutation natural selection" means. Those are 2 processes. I'm asking if you think there was a first human and it was Adam at the beginning or if you think there was no first human but a gradual change from primitive apes to modern apes that we are today.

Sorry im on my phone. It was meant to be mutation, natural selection.

I would say Adam (AS) was the first human.