(August 9, 2013 at 2:14 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(August 9, 2013 at 2:04 pm)Chas Wrote: Please enlighten me. What evidence is there for your beliefs?

Pro tip: The Bible is not evidence. "Feeling the presence of Jesus" is not evidence.

Maybe it's just your reading skills that are out of whack.

zombie atheist: "evidence"

No, my reading skills are fine. It is your lack of critical thinking skills that is the problem.
And you clearly do not understand what constitutes evidence.

Evidence in any situation must be demonstrable and reproducible.

Also, good use of the "cart before the horse" analogy. I can see why that would be considered insulting.

They have the same definition, but, I think you have to specify a specific time in their life that you are inquiring about. If you ask them if they have evidence now. They say-Yes. But, it can only be seen with, for lack of a better term, God Goggles. This is perfectly acceptable to them. Just as the excited feeling I get before I eat Cheescake is proof to me that its the best dessert.

Ask them what reason YOU have, as a skeptic, for believing in God. That kind of evidence, they don't have. It's all a subjective assumption. It's true for them, but that's about it. Look at the sort of confusing crap that follows these claims. Nothing that is real, is this hard to prove as plausible.

(August 9, 2013 at 10:48 am)Texas Sailor Wrote:

(August 9, 2013 at 9:38 am)John V Wrote: No. There are numerous ways to evaluate a claim. I typically start as Frodo did - the very first thing I'll assess is whether the claimant actually believes it himself. You admittedly don't, so why should I? If I tell my kids that there's a turkey in the back yard, they'll run to the window to see it. If one of them sees me wink as I say it, indicating that I don't believe it myself, she won't run to the window.

If you tell your kids that Santa's coming, and run out of convincing reasons to keep them believing you, they'll stop believing that Santa's coming. The same is true for us, and why we don't believe your God. However, if you're willing to accept the things you've been talking about here as convincing reasons to continue believing, well, my guess is that there also won't be any lit fires on Christmas Eve at the John V household. Kids or no kids.

It's time to put the Santa argument to bed. John V stated above if a person doesn't believe what their trying to sale, why should anyone else. You have brought up the solution to this through John V's statement. Children buy into Santa for a while, then they hear things that make them doubt. When they ask Mom and Dad about Santa they begin to see their parents waiver more doubt for the child, then after enough questioning on the child's part and they see the parents do not really believe and they quit believing.
With Christianity it's different, when young Christians hear things that may make them doubt, they go to their parents and the parents tell them with conviction about Christ. The parents believe and are convinced of what they believe and the children see that in their parents, they even see their parents living what they have taught. The Christian faith has infinite answers to questions the children have, because the questions are about an infinite God. With Santa their are only so much that can be said to a child because Santa is a limited imagination to begin with and the parents show doubt and show they are uncomfortable with the deception.
Truth is a powerful thing!

GC

(August 9, 2013 at 2:31 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: Evidence in any situation must be demonstrable and reproducible.

Also, good use of the "cart before the horse" analogy. I can see why that would be considered insulting.

These religious creatures sure are a complicated bunch!

As far as I'm concerned, even if a being that is greater than us all actually created our Universe, either he didn't do a very good job of signing his work of art, or he doesn't care whether or not we know of him. The conclusion to be reached is that he is not real until proven to be so, and whoever brings the evidence to the table will win the Nobel Prize. Until then...

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(August 9, 2013 at 2:38 pm)Godschild Wrote: It's time to put the Santa argument to bed. John V stated above if a person doesn't believe what their trying to sale, why should anyone else. You have brought up the solution to this through John V's statement. Children buy into Santa for a while, then they hear things that make them doubt. When they ask Mom and Dad about Santa they begin to see their parents waiver more doubt for the child, then after enough questioning on the child's part and they see the parents do not really believe and they quit believing.

This is an apt analogy, GC, and it can be ascribed to the Scientific community in relation to the religious community. In this situation, the scientists are the adults, and the religious just haven't grown out of their childhood fairytale fantasies.

GC Wrote:With Christianity it's different, when young Christians hear things that may make them doubt, they go to their parents and the parents tell them with conviction about Christ.

That's what generations of brainwashing does. If you torture a prisoner long enough, he'll tell you any kind of lie with conviction. Yes, I'm saying that religious people are tortured prisoners, and God is their captor.

GC Wrote:The Christian faith has infinite answers to questions the children have, because the questions are about an infinite God.

Yes! With God, anything is possible. Even walking on water, becoming a Zombie, and even using ad hocs as defenses to their shoddy claims after reality proves them wrong.

GC Wrote:With Santa their are only so much that can be said to a child because Santa is a limited imagination to begin with and the parents show doubt and show they are uncomfortable with the deception.
Truth is a powerful thing!

But if I believe in Santa hard enough, and get millions of people to follow me in this belief, he will be real, right?

Bwahhh ha ha ha ha!

GC, why are you an atheist to all the other religions out there? You believe in the Christian God, so it should be simple for you to pick up the Bhaghavad Gita and also believe in Shiva and Rama.

(August 9, 2013 at 2:57 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: GC, why are you an atheist to all the other religions out there? You believe in the Christian God, so it should be simple for you to pick up the Bhaghavad Gita and also believe in Shiva and Rama.

But the Shiva and Rama haven't spoken to him!

(August 9, 2013 at 3:02 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote:

(August 9, 2013 at 2:57 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: GC, why are you an atheist to all the other religions out there? You believe in the Christian God, so it should be simple for you to pick up the Bhaghavad Gita and also believe in Shiva and Rama.

But the Shiva and Rama haven't spoken to him!

...oh yes they have, and many others, I'm sure. He just hasn't got around to naming ALL the voices in his head.