It's got its OK places.
Avoid the pit of perpetually successful used car salesmen though.

So let us examine this judgment to eternal damnation in a court like setting.

Unbeliever’s crimes: Basically not believing in god, thus does not alleviate the "sin" from his life. This sin "nature" has its origins in the fall of man. Reference Genesis 1 and 2 for the complete story. So we will in turn look at the origin of this sin "nature" as it is relevant to the unbeliever's case.

Exhibit A: God created the universe and everything in it, also created the angels, which brings us to the next Exhibit.

Exhibit B: Lucifer, Devil, Satan, he goes by many aliases. For this demonstration we will keep it formal and call him Mr. D. Mr. D was created by God much like mankind was according to the testimony of God's word. With this said, it is safe to assume with the creation of Mr. D, that Mr. D personality was also a result of God's work.

Exhibit C: The fall of Mr. D as explained through several, however questionable sources was that Mr. D was prideful and wanted to be like god. Now since we only have God and the testimony of his angels, which follow a military like structure. The eye witness of the fall of Mr. D credibility is questionable. Why is this? Conflict of interest, since we do not have any neutral party. We cannot simply assume that the events stated by God and his angelic employees are creditable. Thus we cannot judge Mr. D intentions or motivations and this will be discarded.

Exhibit D: After the war in heaven event Mr. D is then cast to the earth. There he hold some sort of vendetta against god, this in turn will bring us into the fall of man event.

Exhibit E: God creates earth and mankind, making man first and woman second. The intelligence of these beings are unknown and we have to fully question their cognitive abilities to make sound judgment. God also now creates two trees, according to his own witness There was the tree of life and tree of knowledge, he gives orders not to eat of the tree of knowledge. The penalty of course is death. This brings us into another issue, due to the questionable cognitive abilities of mankind, do they have the mental facilities to follow such command? This brings us into another factor, God has knowledge of Mr. D being on the planet. God also has valid reason to suspect Mr. D will in fact attempt to mislead mankind. Mankind in a possible vulnerable state and God knowing this does nothing.

The crime: So as the story goes, Eve is possible isolated from Adam and thus vulnerable. There with a simple word game Mr. D tempts Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge that god put there intentionally. We have to question not mankind’s, or Mr. D's judgment but god. If mankind did not have the cognitive facilities to reason out a simple command, that responsibility lies with the creator.

Counterclaim and conclusion: Based on the summarized case, I forward the motion that any judgment to hell to unbeliever is lifted due to technicality. This technicality is the accusation of entrapment. Reason being God being the creator was responsible for Mr. D's actions as his creator. God's creation of mankind with plausible cognitive limitations and the intentional placement of a substance that will cause mortal and in this case immortal harm. In summary, Eve was not presented a fair and just set of circumstances, mankind's case has not been fairly reviewed by due process. The unbeliever of a reasonable moral standard should be relieved of all charges. Due to limitations on reliable information we cannot investigate if there was malicious intent on the side of Gods.


It might be little messy as work did not allow a deep proofread. Enjoy the premise though!

(August 13, 2013 at 2:08 pm)Godschild Wrote: Justice!

Is god not the arbiter of justice? Is god not the creator of what justice entails? Being the creator of all things, god was the decider of what punishment for what actions would be justice.

Unless, of course, you are willing to make the claim that there are things beyond god's control.

If hell's not a bad place, then quit bitching about god sending people there. Yet another example of atheists wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

(August 14, 2013 at 2:26 pm)John V Wrote: If hell's not a bad place, then quit bitching about god sending people there. Yet another example of atheists wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

It's not that hell isn't a bad place. It's just that fire and brimstone isn't too bad compared to an eternity with Christians.

(August 14, 2013 at 1:37 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(August 13, 2013 at 2:08 pm)Godschild Wrote: Justice!

Is god not the arbiter of justice? Is god not the creator of what justice entails? Being the creator of all things, god was the decider of what punishment for what actions would be justice.

Unless, of course, you are willing to make the claim that there are things beyond god's control.

God is justice, and in that justice demands a verdict of guilty to those who sin against God's nature, and those who do not accept the pardon offered by God, will suffer the consequences of their sin. If you will remember what was stated about God, God is justice and God was not created, He has always been so that makes justice eternal also.

GC

(August 14, 2013 at 2:56 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(August 14, 2013 at 1:37 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Is god not the arbiter of justice? Is god not the creator of what justice entails? Being the creator of all things, god was the decider of what punishment for what actions would be justice.

Unless, of course, you are willing to make the claim that there are things beyond god's control.

God is justice, and in that justice demands a verdict of guilty to those who sin against God's nature, and those who do not accept the pardon offered by God, will suffer the consequences of their sin. If you will remember what was stated about God, God is justice and God was not created, He has always been so that makes justice eternal also.

So, you speak for God? You know all about Him?

You arrogance and delusion are monumental. Accent on the mental.

(August 14, 2013 at 2:59 pm)Chas Wrote:

(August 14, 2013 at 2:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: God is justice, and in that justice demands a verdict of guilty to those who sin against God's nature, and those who do not accept the pardon offered by God, will suffer the consequences of their sin. If you will remember what was stated about God, God is justice and God was not created, He has always been so that makes justice eternal also.

So, you speak for God? You know all about Him?

You arrogance and delusion are monumental. Accent on the mental.

I do not have to speak for God, in the end His justice will prevail. I know God through the scriptures and personal experience, it's your own arrogance that keeps you from seeing Him.

GC

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(August 14, 2013 at 2:35 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(August 14, 2013 at 2:26 pm)John V Wrote: If hell's not a bad place, then quit bitching about god sending people there. Yet another example of atheists wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

It's not that hell isn't a bad place. It's just that fire and brimstone isn't too bad compared to an eternity with Christians.

Now you're beginning to understand, God will not put you in a place where you would be unhappy, that's why He let's you choose.

GC

---

(August 14, 2013 at 11:47 am)bladevalant546 Wrote:

---

So let us examine this judgment to eternal damnation in a court like setting.

Unbeliever’s crimes: Basically not believing in god, thus does not alleviate the "sin" from his life. This sin "nature" has its origins in the fall of man. Reference Genesis 1 and 2 for the complete story. So we will in turn look at the origin of this sin "nature" as it is relevant to the unbeliever's case.

Exhibit A: God created the universe and everything in it, also created the angels, which brings us to the next Exhibit.

Exhibit B: Lucifer, Devil, Satan, he goes by many aliases. For this demonstration we will keep it formal and call him Mr. D. Mr. D was created by God much like mankind was according to the testimony of God's word. With this said, it is safe to assume with the creation of Mr. D, that Mr. D personality was also a result of God's work.

Exhibit C: The fall of Mr. D as explained through several, however questionable sources was that Mr. D was prideful and wanted to be like god. Now since we only have God and the testimony of his angels, which follow a military like structure. The eye witness of the fall of Mr. D credibility is questionable. Why is this? Conflict of interest, since we do not have any neutral party. We cannot simply assume that the events stated by God and his angelic employees are creditable. Thus we cannot judge Mr. D intentions or motivations and this will be discarded.

Exhibit D: After the war in heaven event Mr. D is then cast to the earth. There he hold some sort of vendetta against god, this in turn will bring us into the fall of man event.

Exhibit E: God creates earth and mankind, making man first and woman second. The intelligence of these beings are unknown and we have to fully question their cognitive abilities to make sound judgment. God also now creates two trees, according to his own witness There was the tree of life and tree of knowledge, he gives orders not to eat of the tree of knowledge. The penalty of course is death. This brings us into another issue, due to the questionable cognitive abilities of mankind, do they have the mental facilities to follow such command? This brings us into another factor, God has knowledge of Mr. D being on the planet. God also has valid reason to suspect Mr. D will in fact attempt to mislead mankind. Mankind in a possible vulnerable state and God knowing this does nothing.

The crime: So as the story goes, Eve is possible isolated from Adam and thus vulnerable. There with a simple word game Mr. D tempts Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge that god put there intentionally. We have to question not mankind’s, or Mr. D's judgment but god. If mankind did not have the cognitive facilities to reason out a simple command, that responsibility lies with the creator.

Counterclaim and conclusion: Based on the summarized case, I forward the motion that any judgment to hell to unbeliever is lifted due to technicality. This technicality is the accusation of entrapment. Reason being God being the creator was responsible for Mr. D's actions as his creator. God's creation of mankind with plausible cognitive limitations and the intentional placement of a substance that will cause mortal and in this case immortal harm. In summary, Eve was not presented a fair and just set of circumstances, mankind's case has not been fairly reviewed by due process. The unbeliever of a reasonable moral standard should be relieved of all charges. Due to limitations on reliable information we cannot investigate if there was malicious intent on the side of Gods.


It might be little messy as work did not allow a deep proofread. Enjoy the premise though!

---

That's so typical of the nonbeliever, blame anyone and everyone for one's own mistakes. Around here men/women are taught to have respect for justice and accept it's punishment and rewards.

GC

(August 14, 2013 at 2:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: God is justice, and in that justice demands a verdict of guilty to those who sin against God's nature, and those who do not accept the pardon offered by God, will suffer the consequences of their sin. If you will remember what was stated about God, God is justice and God was not created, He has always been so that makes justice eternal also.

So, there are forces beyond his control?

(August 14, 2013 at 3:04 pm)Godschild Wrote: Now you're beginning to understand, God will not put you in a place where you would be unhappy, that's why He let's you choose.

I didn't say I wouldn't be unhappy. It's just that I would be less unhappy than if I had to spend an eternity with Christians.

(August 14, 2013 at 3:57 am)HalcyonicTrust Wrote:

(August 13, 2013 at 2:08 pm)Godschild Wrote: Justice!

GC

God has a fucking sick conception of Justice then. Hell is the least just idea imaginable....

God: "Hmmm.... what should I do to bad people.... torture them for eternity even though it changes absolutely nothing for the better and has no positive effect other than fulfil my own need for sadism; and that's a good thing right?"

If God was to allow nonbelievers into heaven that would be torture for them, hell is the justice that comes with unforgiven sin, hell was made for Satan and those who follow in His deception, heaven is for those who will accept the free pardon of Christ. Hell satisfies the justice of God.

GC

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(August 14, 2013 at 3:23 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(August 14, 2013 at 2:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: God is justice, and in that justice demands a verdict of guilty to those who sin against God's nature, and those who do not accept the pardon offered by God, will suffer the consequences of their sin. If you will remember what was stated about God, God is justice and God was not created, He has always been so that makes justice eternal also.

So, there are forces beyond his control?

God will not force us to love Him and choose His pardon.

(August 14, 2013 at 3:04 pm)Godschild Wrote: Now you're beginning to understand, God will not put you in a place where you would be unhappy, that's why He let's you choose.

I didn't say I wouldn't be unhappy. It's just that I would be less unhappy than if I had to spend an eternity with Christians.
[/quote]

Excuses, I'm sure you would not enjoy hell or be happy there if that becomes you eternal destination, so you would be down right miserable in heaven.

GC