(October 2, 2013 at 8:51 am)Tortino Wrote:

(October 2, 2013 at 8:44 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Because so many people keep telling us their version of whatever god it is they worship exists and, further, that it hates us.

Really? Well, I cannot speak on behalf of Islam or Judaism, but the doctrine of Christianity is clear that God loves sinners.

Irrelevant.

I didn't mention anything about a god, I spoke specifically about whatever god's worshippers.

Take yourself, for example. You've already accused us of being 'sinners' based on nothing more than an arbitrary label of someone who lacks a belief in deities. "Let he who is without sin..." And all that.

Bracketing out for a second the idea of a sin (which I find silly and nonsensical), what you've done is actually reinforce the notion that believers tend to automatically chastise atheists/ theists of other religions by the supposed vice of not adhering to said believer's actual beliefs.

So really, you just answered your own question. 

(October 2, 2013 at 8:51 am)Tortino Wrote:

Quote:But really, we never actually get past the first question; "What's a god?"

Creator of the universe, life and source of all moral goodness.

[/quote]

You're describing what a non-descript being has supposedly 'done', not what it 'is'. I don't recall all the roman gods having created the universe, neither have all the Hindu gods been given that attribute. You certainly haven't displayed any moral goodness (???????) so far on this thread. Remember when you accused people who don't believe in the same things as you as being sinners (based on your own beliefs)?

To prove a point, I created the universe. Disprove it.

(October 2, 2013 at 9:11 am)Darwinian Wrote: Back to the O.P.

Q. Why do atheists spend so much time debating the existence of God?

A. They don't!

I find it hard to believe that anyone is stupid enough to believe that shit and have to have the conversations to remind myself how stupid people can be.

Why do theists spend so much time debating why atheists debate the existence of god?

(October 2, 2013 at 9:34 am)Tortino Wrote: Well, we have seen , an absence of religious belief has been the biggest destruction in terms of killings in human history.

Joseph Stalin killed over 20 million people
Mao Zedong killed 45 million...
Pol Pot killed around 1.7 million.

I am sorry, but the atrocities in the name of religion pale significantly when compared to people who killed when they had the absence of religious belief. Did their lack of belief cause them to kill? Who knows, but no direct link can be made. However, how can the teachings of Jesus be reconciled to killing someone? Killing and then attributing it to the teachings of Christianity is as non sequitur as me killing someone and saying I am doing it in the name of the New York Yankees.

I think the more intriguing consideration is that neither an abundance nor a lack of religious belief seems to have curbed the bloodthirsty attitudes and actions of men, organizations, societies, and nations in the past. If there really was a god, wouldn't there be a much clearer dividing line between the way men acted when they believed in him, and how the acted when they didn't? It's almost as if religious belief didn't matter, one way or another. Hey, religion! Nice job bringing all of humanity together in brotherhood and love for the past few thousand years!

(October 2, 2013 at 9:34 am)Tortino Wrote: Who determines if something designed?

The creationists determine that everything was designed. Except the designer.

Quote:How do you prove if something is designed?

Apparently you don't, if you're a creationist. You just claim that all life was designed because it was written in an ancient book and then try to refute the Theory of Evolution.

(October 2, 2013 at 12:20 pm)Ivy Wrote: My brother in law says I take it a step too far. I think he hopes for a pat on the back. All I do it speak. And yes, he says I'm a militant atheist.

Better keep him away from the forums then. You are one of the mildest here.

Or - get him to watch Hitchens in full flow for a taste of what a miliant anti-theist is really like.

If religion could have brought peace to the world it would have done so by now.

(October 2, 2013 at 11:06 am)Brian37 Wrote: He has more in common with dictators than prime ministers or presidents ellected via consent of the governed.

Upon reading this I had flashbacks to the repressed peasant scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

(October 2, 2013 at 12:20 pm)Ivy Wrote: My brother in law says I take it a step too far. I think he hopes for a pat on the back. All I do it speak. And yes, he says I'm a militant atheist.

That is merely and unfortunately what Dawkins talks about in "The God Delusion" when a subordinate(minority) in a group species, even if offering help to the alpha male, the alpha male will react violently even to something that is intended as help.

This is merely a kneejerk emotional response to avoid scrutiny to their claims. He calls you militant to shut down the conversation.

(October 2, 2013 at 1:06 pm)max-greece Wrote:

(October 2, 2013 at 12:20 pm)Ivy Wrote: My brother in law says I take it a step too far. I think he hopes for a pat on the back. All I do it speak. And yes, he says I'm a militant atheist.

Better keep him away from the forums then. You are one of the mildest here.

Or - get him to watch Hitchens in full flow for a taste of what a miliant anti-theist is really like.

Lol he gets mad for the things I say on FB and for starting an atheist group in my community.

(October 2, 2013 at 1:26 pm)Ivy Wrote:

(October 2, 2013 at 1:06 pm)max-greece Wrote: Better keep him away from the forums then. You are one of the mildest here.

Or - get him to watch Hitchens in full flow for a taste of what a miliant anti-theist is really like.

Lol he gets mad for the things I say on FB and for starting an atheist group in my community.

Well, I have an older sister who when I first got on FB insisted I not post "hateful" stuff. I had it out with her and finally convinced her it was nothing personal and if she wanted to unfreind me, she could, but that would not mean I am disowning her. But she had no right to make demands of my posts when no one was forcing her to read them.

I get the same double standard crap at work. They can wear crosses in front of the customers, listen to gospel music in the kitchen, when they do it it is "practicing" their religion, when I attempt to question them or bring up my atheism I am seeking attention.

It sucks because it is a species issue, not really a label issue. The alpha male in most species, especially mammals does not like challenges by the subordinate.

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I cant even begin to describe the treatment of my younger sister who came out. Our biological family treated her like shit, and even today she has a hard time dealing with them.