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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 2, 2013 at 5:34 pm
(October 2, 2013 at 7:10 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists
Some claim that it is impossible to prove that God exists. But the word of God declares otherwise.
Romans 1:19-20explanation, of an origin without God, is totally false and contradictory.
Therefore, a second irrefutable proof of the existence of God Almighty the Creator can be made. Assume indeed that atheistic origin science is correct, and all of the creation can be explained without God by the laws of nature and random chance. As will be shown, this assumed theory will prove to be false. And since the only alternative to a Creator is false, then again the fact that the Creator, God Almighty, exists will have been proven again.
Sorry - but YOU make an irrefutable error - in your logic - that renders your claim false.
YOU used the bible - a compilation of MYTH and LEGEND -= and called it the word of god. THAT is a condition that YOU cannot prove to be true.
We can prove that the ENTIRE bible was written by humans - and no one can prove otherwise.
As far as the VAST complexity of living things - we can PROVE that there never was a time when ALL of the living things of the world existed at the same time (Which disproves creation) - through archeological studies.
However - the fact that there is a vast complexity of life supports EVOLUTION - and an earth that is Billions of years old - since it would require that time for that many different species to evolve. DNA studies have already proven that ALL life on earth descended from a COMMON initial life - and evolution is already proven to have happened on earth and is still happening. IT is no longer a theory - it is a fact. So - your claim that there is NO alternative to a creator is false - itself is NOT True - it is simply an assumption YOU made based on NO PROVABLE basis.
Sorry - but there have been Hundreds of GODS - thousands of gods - and the problem with them is that they are ALL mythical concoctions of the imagination of humans - nothing more. ALL of the stories of ancient gods - including yours - have PROVABLE errors in them - that establish that they are Not true.
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 2, 2013 at 5:36 pm
(October 2, 2013 at 5:08 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Whatever the answer turns out to be, you can bet your ass it wasn't Yahweh playing mad scientist before turning his attention to the really important things like prohibiting people from eating shellfish or wearing blended fabrics.
This is the whole point that RPG keeps missing: even if the Final Answer To Everything does in fact turn out to be not just a god but his god, he's still not remotely justified at this time to start from that conclusion. None of the evidence - literally 100% none of it - has so far even suggested there's anything with a face behind the laws of the Universe.
Investigating whether some flavour of divine power was involved or even necessary in creating and maintaining the cosmos would actually be a legitimate research project. However, filing the question of how you would test for it in the "not my problem" drawer for a moment, when the results come in and the answer is no gods to be found, it's time to abandon the initial hypothesis. Sadly, creationists are as keen to do that as they are to do the work.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 2, 2013 at 5:37 pm
(This post was last modified: October 2, 2013 at 5:40 pm by SavedByGraceThruFaith.)
(October 2, 2013 at 5:34 pm)ThomM Wrote: (October 2, 2013 at 7:10 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists
Some claim that it is impossible to prove that God exists. But the word of God declares otherwise.
Romans 1:19-20explanation, of an origin without God, is totally false and contradictory.
Therefore, a second irrefutable proof of the existence of God Almighty the Creator can be made. Assume indeed that atheistic origin science is correct, and all of the creation can be explained without God by the laws of nature and random chance. As will be shown, this assumed theory will prove to be false. And since the only alternative to a Creator is false, then again the fact that the Creator, God Almighty, exists will have been proven again.
Sorry - but YOU make an irrefutable error - in your logic - that renders your claim false.
YOU used the bible - a compilation of MYTH and LEGEND -= and called it the word of god. THAT is a condition that YOU cannot prove to be true.
We can prove that the ENTIRE bible was written by humans - and no one can prove otherwise.
As far as the VAST complexity of living things - we can PROVE that there never was a time when ALL of the living things of the world existed at the same time (Which disproves creation) - through archeological studies.
However - the fact that there is a vast complexity of life supports EVOLUTION - and an earth that is Billions of years old - since it would require that time for that many different species to evolve. DNA studies have already proven that ALL life on earth descended from a COMMON initial life - and evolution is already proven to have happened on earth and is still happening. IT is no longer a theory - it is a fact. So - your claim that there is NO alternative to a creator is false - itself is NOT True - it is simply an assumption YOU made based on NO PROVABLE basis.
Sorry - but there have been Hundreds of GODS - thousands of gods - and the problem with them is that they are ALL mythical concoctions of the imagination of humans - nothing more. ALL of the stories of ancient gods - including yours - have PROVABLE errors in them - that establish that they are Not true.
I used the Bible passage as a start off quote for the post. The Bible passage was not part of the facts that need to be explained.
The vast amount of information and complexity in living things is unexplainable than by any other cause but a Creator.
(October 2, 2013 at 5:08 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: (October 2, 2013 at 4:51 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: DNA is a code that is used to encode RNA which is used to encode protein sequences.
As such it shows that an intelligent being made it unless you can show it came from random processes.
False dichotomy: chemistry is not random and no one thinks the chemical pathways that led to DNA were random. It was a selective process that took some time and is a bit murky to us today. As for the precise pathway(s) that led to the formation of RNA/DNA, people are working on that. Are you so impatient for an answer that you'll settle for a bad one?
Whatever the answer turns out to be, you can bet your ass it wasn't Yahweh playing mad scientist before turning his attention to the really important things like prohibiting people from eating shellfish or wearing blended fabrics.
If it is not random, just drop the correct percentage of elements into a container and see if a frog pops out.
The exact DNA code sequences cannot be formed by non-directed chemical processes.
(October 2, 2013 at 5:00 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (October 2, 2013 at 4:51 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: DNA is a code that is used to encode RNA which is used to encode protein sequences.
Here's the thing, super genius: it doesn't matter how loudly you assert this, because your inability to see other arguments nor generate responses doesn't make your position true. DNA? Not a code; it's simply chemicals interacting in accordance with the laws of physics.
That we "read" anything in DNA, the "G,C,A,T" lettering system, is down to human beings imposing labels upon the patterns that we see, nothing more. Those letters correspond to chemicals that pair up, basically; there's nothing else to it.
Quote:As such it shows that an intelligent being made it unless you can show it came from random processes.
Yes, that's your fallacious argument from ignorance; even if we couldn't do this- and we can, just take a look at the Miller Yurey experiment, for starters- it wouldn't make your idea true. You need to prove it, not just assert it over and over as though your words mean anything.
Evidence. Do you have any, or are you going to continue to display your ignorance?
Oh, and when are we going to hear about your qualifications in all this?
(October 2, 2013 at 4:58 pm)pocaracas Wrote: herp a derp...
A pair of RNA-like molecules can spontaneously assemble into gene-length chains
Self-assembling RNA square.
Self-assembling RNA nanorings based on RNAI/II inverse kissing complexes
Just 3 examples... If you want more, just google for... "self assembling rna".
Predicted next response: DNA is a code. Since everything is designed, the process that made these things you link to is also designed. This is logical. Atheistic science cannot account for this.
And then we all go and die in a hole. Well, goodnight, everyone. I'm sure there'll be more of this idiocy to deal with tomorrow. 
Self assembling RNA will not a living creature make.
Sorry no evidence there.
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 2, 2013 at 5:41 pm
(This post was last modified: October 2, 2013 at 5:42 pm by Cyberman.)
Ok, SDP, let's run with this. You are saying, essentially, that complexity points to a creator. More, that complexity can only be explained by a creator. Would the creator, by definition, be more complex than its creation?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 2, 2013 at 5:45 pm
(October 2, 2013 at 3:00 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: How did the universe come into being?
How did life start?
Just 2 simple questions.
Sorry I'm late with my response.
I do not have a PhD in physics, so there is only so much I can say. But if you want answers to your questions:
http://www.amazon.com/Universe-Nothing-T...erse+start
http://www.amazon.com/The-Origin-Of-Spec...ion+darwin
If you want answers to your questions, these are a couple good places to start. If you won't accept them, then that is your loss.
Cheers.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
- Buddha
"Anyone wanting to believe Jesus lived and walked as a real live human being must do so despite the evidence, not because of it."
- Dennis McKinsey
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 2, 2013 at 5:47 pm
(October 2, 2013 at 5:37 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: The vast amount of information and complexity in living things is unexplainable than by any other cause but a Creator./
Only if you ignore the mountains of evidence for evolution.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 2, 2013 at 5:48 pm
(October 2, 2013 at 5:47 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: (October 2, 2013 at 5:37 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: The vast amount of information and complexity in living things is unexplainable than by any other cause but a Creator./
Only if you ignore the mountains of evidence for evolution.
When you say a mountain I guess you mean 0.
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 2, 2013 at 5:49 pm
Quote:Self assembling RNA will not a living creature make.
Sorry no evidence there.
Really, that is amazing considering you are alive typing your bullshit here.
This is like claiming single raindrops in mass cant form a complex puddle.
You would not exist at all if RNA did not exist, no life would.
RNA as part of DNA as part of evolution are natural process not requiring sky daddies to cause them.
Got anymore crap you want to spew?
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 2, 2013 at 5:49 pm
(This post was last modified: October 2, 2013 at 5:50 pm by Doubting Thomas.)
See? Ignoring evidence.
We have the fossils, we win.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 2, 2013 at 5:49 pm
(October 2, 2013 at 5:45 pm)Beta Ray Bill Wrote: (October 2, 2013 at 3:00 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: How did the universe come into being?
How did life start?
Just 2 simple questions.
Sorry I'm late with my response.
I do not have a PhD in physics, so there is only so much I can say. But if you want answers to your questions:
http://www.amazon.com/Universe-Nothing-T...erse+start
http://www.amazon.com/The-Origin-Of-Spec...ion+darwin
If you want answers to your questions, these are a couple good places to start. If you won't accept them, then that is your loss.
Cheers.
You can distill it and present that "science" for us.
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